KED or backboard only to extricate from a vehicle?

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newEMT

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I've seen both. Paramedics tend to place the patient involved in a MVA on a KED, and then transfer them to a long backboard.

However, during my time with the volunteer FD, most firefighters just extricated the patient onto a long backboard so the ambulance personnel could just load and go.

Which is better? When is a KED necessary? If I remember correctly from my EMT class, I think they said that you can just put the patient on a backboard (and forget about the KED) if there is an immediate threat to the patient's life or a life-threatening injury. Is this correct? Thanks!
 
newEMT said:
If I remember correctly from my EMT class, I think they said that you can just put the patient on a backboard (and forget about the KED) if there is an immediate threat to the patient's life or a life-threatening injury. Is this correct? Thanks!
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Life over limb. If you have a critical patient who needs a heli or to get out of there ASAP, you wouldn't spend the time it takes to get the KED set up, do the straps up and then get em outta there. You'd manually hold C-Spine, get the backboard under them as much as possible and then lay them down and go.

I do prefer the KED when getting somone outta a vehicle, unless they are critical and need to get to a hospital ASAP.
 
Is a KED more useful for rollovers or when the patient is laying in some odd position rather than sitting in the seat?
 
not using the ked is called a rapid extrication. its only meant to be done during imminent life threats(fuel leaking etc).

that being said, studies have proven time and time again that all of the efforts we do to "immobilize" the c-spine are pretty much crap. sure, in emt class where you have thirty people around to help and a perfectly calm and quite environment youc an do a pretty good job but on the street it just doesnt happen. even when you do it textbook perfect, its still awful.

stress over the details of you like. ked, no ked, order to do the straps in, 37 people to do the log roll etc. me personally, i recognize its all pretty much crap.
 
Also, where I work we have a 40 minute transport time by ground to the nearest ER. We are a BLS service, and the medics are about 20-30 minutes away from our station. Should everyone get rapidly extricated then since we are so isolated?
 
newEMT said:
Also, where I work we have a 40 minute transport time by ground to the nearest ER. We are a BLS service, and the medics are about 20-30 minutes away from our station. Should everyone get rapidly extricated then since we are so isolated?
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is there an iminent life threat?
 
KEVD18 said:
not using the ked is called a rapid extrication. its only meant to be done during imminent life threats(fuel leaking etc).

that being said, studies have proven time and time again that all of the efforts we do to "immobilize" the c-spine are pretty much crap. sure, in emt class where you have thirty people around to help and a perfectly calm and quite environment youc an do a pretty good job but on the street it just doesnt happen. even when you do it textbook perfect, its still awful.

stress over the details of you like. ked, no ked, order to do the straps in, 37 people to do the log roll etc. me personally, i recognize its all pretty much crap.
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Yeppers........ I have to agree........ hence the name change to Spinal Restriction since we never really immobilize :)

But we should still give it our best.

And to add a point about rural treatment...... The KED is for NON rapid extrication situations period. Even though it can be used in peds or hip fx......... the intent was not for rapid extrication. Even if you have a 30+ minute transport time........ if the patient does not require "Rapid Extrication" don't do rapid extrication.
 
I was talking to a medic tonight on my ride-along and he said in the 5 years he's been a medic he's never seen the KED used for it's intended purpose, doesn't make it right but it's a perspective of our use for it here.
 
KED is an extrication device.. one of many options.. each case is different and the method used to extricate the pt will take into account the details of that particular call. Depending on how the vehicle is folded around the pt, the KED may be the only option.

Its not particularly my favorite.. but I have used it when it was the best option for the call.
 
the only time I ever used a KED for its intended purpose was to extricate somebody from a rollercoaster car. (which it is very well suited for I discovered)
 
What happened on a roller coaster car that required an attempt at spinal immobilization? Were they too tall to make it through the tunnel?
 
marineman said:
What happened on a roller coaster car that required an attempt at spinal immobilization? Were they too tall to make it through the tunnel?
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Jumped the track at the bottom of the hill, got stuck and the next train ran right into the back of it and rolled over the heads of the people in the car.
 
Ouch, that doesn't seem like something that would end well. How many patients total did you pull out of there?
 
Veneficus said:
the only time I ever used a KED for its intended purpose was to extricate somebody from a rollercoaster car. (which it is very well suited for I discovered)
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I don't think I have ever seen someone voluntarily grab a KED at the service I work for or the one I worked at before it. I usually have to request it.

I try to educate but it falls on deaf, unwilling ears. In most situations the first responders are first on scene and they already have MVC patients secured to LSB's prior to my arrival


Side Note: It's always fun to see the look on the "old-timer's" face when I use a KED as a splint when missing a hare-traction splint
 
I use it atleast 2-3 times a week. I cannot believe the amount of people that have no clue how to use one. That is a lot of the reason I use it so much. It helps keep people fresh on how to use them!
 
marineman said:
Ouch, that doesn't seem like something that would end well. How many patients total did you pull out of there?
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9 that required transport. While some of the injuries were quite serious, nobody was killed or disabled which was quite surprising considering what the scene looked like.
 
In MA & NH it is mandatory to use the KED for extrication unless a life-threatening situation to either patient or attendant exists/prevents the time required to safely do so.
 
FF894 said:
In MA & NH it is mandatory to use the KED for extrication unless a life-threatening situation to either patient or attendant exists/prevents the time required to safely do so.
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Stuff like that "mandated" makes me nervous. The reason is it can open the agency/provider up for litigation. The are a blue billion reasons to do or not to do something on the side of the road. Most is left up to the assessment of the medic/EMT on scene to do or not do something based on the totality of the circumstances.

If you are mandated to do something........... well............... what if that if the patient was too large for the KED?

Better yet............ what if there were too many patients and not enough KED's?

No matter what............ if something is "mandated" and you or your service fails to do it the mandated way...............

How is that court defensible?

Has anyone challenged it yet?

Kip
 
If it does not require rapid extrication, you have to use a KED or short spineboard then transfer to a longboard.
 
KED works well for extricating Sprint car drivers. We don't use them much in the city,usually just the LB.
 
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