Interesting questions about "ObamaCare"

[Shishkabob]

Last I checked, the polls said that the majority of people supported this health care initiative.

Really? Might wanna check the numbers again.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...3_now_oppose_congressional_health_care_reform

Rasmussen-- 53% oppose, 44% approve.




You're mistaking wanting reform, for wanting THIS reform.

 

[8jimi8]

the answer is hydrogen power and wind energy. Forgive me all of these numbers are coming from a memory of a radio broadcast.

Basically the premise was. retool our auto factories to produce hydrogen vehicles. As well as a $6trillion investment in more production of those giant windmills. (he also said that if we fill up the great plains with windmills it would actually generate enough electricity for the whole country)

I think he said we spend about $2 trillion per year using petroleum based fuel.

His idea being that if we build enough windmills to power the entire electric grid as well as eliminating our dependence on fossil fuels for transportation and then exported our windmills across the globe...

it would take that $6 trillion investment and then turn into a $2trillion/year surplus, since we would no longer be dependent on oil.

But... i idealize wayyy too far. No, i think instead we'll gut the healthcare bill, not reform a thing and keep on bailing out banks and auto companies.

Just remember this... when we roll out socialized medicine and it doesn't work for us... There will be no going back. By then it'll be too late and Mitt Romney will be the next president. I haven't even begun researching what his agenda is.

 

[JesseM515]

Healthcare is such a HUGE issue in our country... I think alot of the issues with insurance coverage happen because companies have become so large and wealthy that they can sway politicians with lobbyists and bribes. The same can be said about drug companies. If only there was a way to get free universal healthcare like so many other countries have succeeded in doing... but what do I know Im only 22 and I dont get paid for my opinions = )

Gotta love the military! and Tricare!!!!

 

[PapaBear434]

You're mistaking wanting reform, for wanting THIS reform.

You could be right there. I want Canada's system, UK's system, Germany's system. This idiotic system being proposed, with no public option and a mandate to have insurance without it makes no sense.

 

[k8ek8e]

Lobbying should be illegal in my opinion.

 

[8jimi8]

agreed. As should campaign donations. Each candidate should have a set amount of money given out by the fed and free air time on all major networks. There should be fed sponsored debates aired on the internet and networks and we should hold state elections where it only takes 3% of the population of that state's votes to qualify you to be in the race.

AND NO FREAKING ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES THAT DONT PRINT A RECEIPT FOR YOUR VOTE. omFg.

but we digress!

I think papabear is finally on the page with the rest of us. It really seemed like he was arguing for something crazy, but as it turns out he's just a bleeding heart like the rest of us.

Yah... we don't want to keep the little man down and keep his insurance card just out of reach. We just dont want to flush our country down the toilet and lose any of our personal freedom or wealth in the process.

 

[firecoins]

Lobbying should be illegal in my opinion.

no, it shouldn't. Freedom of speech goes right out the window. Every group including proObamaplan would not get to talk to Congress men.

 

[8jimi8]

maybe just... "paid lobbyists" then how about that!

 

[Jon]

Telling each other to shush, and calling them socialists and fascists does not constitute being civil.

Just to clarify, though:

...a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation...

~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
There is SOME truth to the socialism label.


And I really would love to see a test of "national healthcare" as violating the 10th Amendment, as "Universal Access to Health Care" is NOT a right guaranteed under the US Bill of Rights

Tenth Amendment: provides that powers that the Constitution does not delegate to the United States and does not prohibit the States from exercising, are "reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution



And to stir the pot even more - Illegal Aliens, Undocumented Guest Workers - whatever you want to call them. THEY DON'T PAY TAXES... because they DON'T EXIST on paper. Why do some of the plans call for me to pay for THEIR medical care with MY tax money? I know this happens already - however, Is it FAIR to all concerned? Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?

 

[Hal9000]

Rights

Rights typically relate to freedom FROM state intervention in specific affairs. We have habeas corpus rights which protect us FROM arbitrary imprisonment by the government. We have the right to bear arms, which prevents us FROM being divested of our firepower by the government. But it is most important to note that the right to bear arms does not mean that the government will buy you a gun if you cannot afford to purchase your own.

Having the right TO something rather than FROM something usually obliges the government to buy it for you.

Someone from the UK said it much better than I could.

 

[ffemt8978]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/30/AR2009073002816.html

 

[JesseM515]

Pulling out of Iraq now would not be good for anyone!

*sigh* it would be good for me!!! It sucks here! = )

 

[thrilla82]

found this to be very interesting. what i dont understand is, why would people want to give up the right to choose who their doctor is? my father in law passed away from ms and could have had better treatment. for the longest time his doctor couldnt figure out what was going on, so my wife and i convinced him to get a second oppinion. go figure, the doctor found over 20 lesions on his brain. how was this missed? so now they want us to be assigned one doctor and thats it, i dont like that one bit. but read this article, obama care in one word.


http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24397&highlight=obamacare

 

[PapaBear434]

found this to be very interesting. what i dont understand is, why would people want to give up the right to choose who their doctor is? my father in law passed away from ms and could have had better treatment. for the longest time his doctor couldnt figure out what was going on, so my wife and i convinced him to get a second oppinion. go figure, the doctor found over 20 lesions on his brain. how was this missed? so now they want us to be assigned one doctor and thats it, i dont like that one bit. but read this article, obama care in one word.


http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24397&highlight=obamacare

Dear Mr. or Mrs. thrilla82,
We regret to inform you that your current primary care physician, Dr. Madeupname, has been removed from your current network coverage plan. We understand that your family has been seeing Dr. Madeupname for many years, delivered your three children, and helped nurse your spouse through that bout of cancer, and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. We encourage you to please look through your insurance plan on our website and choose another PCM from our extensive list of physicians you've never heard of and no nothing about.

If you have any objection to the above action, please reference our aggrievance and appeal procedure located in our labyrinthine, red-tape laden bylaws and fine print. Please have three copies of your birth certificate, two forms of ID, original versions, six copies of your middle school graduation forms, and a vial of virgin goat blood obtained during the highest point of the harvest moon enclosed with your appeal forms, which can be found conveniently on our poorly designed and powerfully aggravating website.

Thank you again for your continued patronage at Bendyouover & Hard Health Services, and please have a healthy day.

If you think that crap doesn't happen now, you are deluding yourself. People paying a huge premium for the companies to choose your Doctor and/or screw you over in your time of need anyway.

At least with a public option, people that otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to see a doctor now would. Plus, if you don't like your doctor, or want a second opinion, you can request to change your PCM and schedule another appointment. That's how it works in Medicare/Medicade, that's how it works in Tricare (I just did it last week myself since my PCM was, quite frankly, kind of a jerk,) that's how it works in Canada/UK/Germany... It would be no different under any of the three major proposed systems in the House right now.

Oh, and it has the added benefit of stopping the trend of people going bankrupt because they or somoene in their family has the audacity to get sick. 60% of all bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills. And a lot of those folks have insurance. Or DID, until they raised their rates so high they could no longer pay for their policy, and can't shop around with another company because they won't be covered due to a "pre-existing condition."

 

[Shishkabob]

Papa---- then change the way insurance companies operate. But don't offer free, or close to free, healthcare to those who don't pay for it, funded by the federal government.

 

[thrilla82]

and all im saying is, the government is having a hard time running medicare and medicaid and also social security and now they want to run the whole thing? why dont we take baby steps here and fix those first, then move on from there.

 

[PapaBear434]

I submit that Linuss and thrilla have not read the bills in question, and fundamentally do not understand what is being proposed. They are proposing starting up a public option. Not taking over, not outlawing private insurance, just offering a baseline coverage for all.

Besides, if you're saying that private insurance cannot compete with a public option, but in the same breath claim that the government can do nothing right and runs everything into the ground, you are selectively choosing what to believe in.

 

[HotelCo]

They are proposing starting up a public option.

How are they going to pay for it in this crippled economy?

 

[firecoins]

Besides, if you're saying that private insurance cannot compete with a public option, but in the same breath claim that the government can do nothing right and runs everything into the ground, you are selectively choosing what to believe in.

No they are not. The government has an almost unlimited amount of power to tax and borrow. Hence it can subsidize any program that loses money for some time. Most people treat that as forever. Social Security is going bankrupt as we speak. Even the military spend billion in unnecessary waste outside of the wars.

Business can not do that. A business's goal is to make money. Too much waste and its gone. It will cut unecessary costs and healthcare will be a huge unecessary cost. A public option will give a busines the option to cut that cost and tell employees to sign up for the gov't plan.

 

[ffemt8978]

I submit that Linuss and thrilla have not read the bills in question, and fundamentally do not understand what is being proposed. They are proposing starting up a public option. Not taking over, not outlawing private insurance, just offering a baseline coverage for all.

Besides, if you're saying that private insurance cannot compete with a public option, but in the same breath claim that the government can do nothing right and runs everything into the ground, you are selectively choosing what to believe in.

I submit that the elimination of private insurance is the ultimate goal of this plan.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25779.html?n