IFT vs 911 Pay

[firecoins]

I see you want to make an attack on nurses.

No you don't see. ER nurses and doctors constantly attack their SNF counterparts for the same reason I do. Very few SNF nurses have demontrated any knowledge equivalent to nurses anywhere else.

But, they did call for an ambulance so they must have known something.

The doctor ordered the patient out. On questioning, the nurses admit they know nothing. It isn't their patient. They are covering someone. Their shift just started. The CNA said something. The family member complained. Lab result came back with something elevated. The patient's "chief complaint" is they are "sick" and this all we have to tell the ED whose nurses understand our view point because they received report from the same SNF nurses who told them the same thing.

One nurse may also have 30 patients to care for in one shift in a nursing home or SNF. Some of those patient with fevers and UTIs you may have considered to be boring calls may have died within a few hours at the hospital.

Death is a part of life and these patients are near death on a regular basis. This again has nothing to do with the call being exciting or boring. There may be nothing to do from an EMS standpoint.

Unless you have worked alongside these patients for a greater length of time than just the drive to the hospital, you may not be aware of this

. Your not in a position to comment on ayone's awareness.

I can not fault you if this was not in your education

.Whats my "education" level? I am not sure you have the education level to be as arrogant as you are on the internet.

 

[firecoins]

IFT is educational. Reading about multiple disease processes is fine. It does not make IFTs exciting. Without the proper guidance readingabout these multiple disease processes is of limited value. Need classroom education.

 

[JPINFV]

Lets go with McDonalds vs In-n-out comparison. McDonalds is probably 100 or 1000 times bigger compare to in-n-out. They are present all over usa and the world, In-n-out is in California and couple of other states. In this economy as emt you're lucky to have a job, period. Even experience emt is replaceable very quickly. Unless you're in right to work state, it is advisable to do good work and keep management happy as you will be replaced quickly if you half *** job on transport and/or paperwork.

Yes, McDonalds is extremely large, however In-N-Out is expanding and is being limited essentially by their own quality controls. You can't just expand willy-nilly if you require all of your meat to be delivered daily. Similarly, I've never had bad service or someone who barely spoke English at In-N-Out. McDonalds, on the other hand... Additionally, In-N-Out is generally more expensive and takes significantly longer on average for the food to be finished. Why do so many people eat there? Because the food is tasty and the service is good.

As far as how easy it is to replace EMTs, I'm not arguing that they aren't easily replaceable, generally regardless of the economy. I will argue, though, that considering the workforce to be disposable, even if they generally are, isn't necessarily in the best interest of the company and keeping employees is not necessarily hard or expensive. As I mentioned in other threads, the OC company I worked for spent about $600 for initial training per employment (using the starting wage circa 2007, I imagine it's higher by now), and another $400 in driver training per employment (numbers calculated since initial field training and driver training was done on a 3 man unit). I can't imagine how $600/attendant or $1000/driver doesn't start to add up if turnover is high.

 

[looker]

As far as how easy it is to replace EMTs, I'm not arguing that they aren't easily replaceable, generally regardless of the economy. I will argue, though, that considering the workforce to be disposable, even if they generally are, isn't necessarily in the best interest of the company and keeping employees is not necessarily hard or expensive. As I mentioned in other threads, the OC company I worked for spent about $600 for initial training per employment (using the starting wage circa 2007, I imagine it's higher by now), and another $400 in driver training per employment (numbers calculated since initial field training and driver training was done on a 3 man unit). I can't imagine how $600/attendant or $1000/driver doesn't start to add up if turnover is high.

If company want to provide training that is their choice unless required by law. A company hires professional that is certified and should be ready to go. There is no real need to provide training to a professional personal. As such they can save that 1k that they spend on training.

 

[JPINFV]

If company want to provide training that is their choice unless required by law. A company hires professional that is certified and should be ready to go. There is no real need to provide training to a professional personal. As such they can save that 1k that they spend on training.

So your employees come in knowing how the company is set up, how to write PCRs, including narratives, how to fill out PCRs, and so forth? Do you have a field training program? If so, how long is your field training for new hires? How do you go about making sure your employees understand your companies policies and procedures, including company specific issues such as radio operations? Alternatively, do you just hand them the keys to your ambulances on day one after watching the mandatory OSHA pathogen videos and filling out the HR paperwork?

 

[looker]

So your employees come in knowing how the company is set up, how to write PCRs, including narratives, how to fill out PCRs, and so forth? Do you have a field training program? If so, how long is your field training for new hires? How do you go about making sure your employees understand your companies policies and procedures, including company specific issues such as radio operations? Alternatively, do you just hand them the keys to your ambulances on day one after watching the mandatory OSHA pathogen videos and filling out the HR paperwork?

I do not hire "noobs" meaning someone that just finished. As such i generally do not need to provide much if any training regarding pcr's, narratives etc. All new hires are partnered with experience employee. So basically yes they start working pretty much on first day. Radio use is easy, we like most company around here use nextel. If they got any question while in the field, they can ask their partner.

 

[Shishkabob]

So what would you like Hospital to do, call a taxi?

Idealy, yes.


Heck, id be willing to cede a medi-van.

 

[looker]

Idealy, yes.


Heck, id be willing to cede a medi-van.

A medi-van is not covered by private insurance and/or medicare. An ambulance is.

 

[JPINFV]

I do not hire "noobs" meaning someone that just finished. As such i generally do not need to provide much if any training regarding pcr's, narratives etc. All new hires are partnered with experience employee. So basically yes they start working pretty much on first day. Radio use is easy, we like most company around here use nextel. If they got any question while in the field, they can ask their partner.

Well, saying you hire only people with experience is different than saying you expect employees to hit the ground running simply because they are certified. Similarly, if you run a small enough operation that you don't need a training department, that tells me that your operation is very small. I remember you mentioning in the past that your company doesn't run 911 calls, which rules out a lot of the larger companies. However you essentially saying that you don't have a field training program also rules out essentially all of the larger IFT operations in LA County.

 

[looker]

Well, saying you hire only people with experience is different than saying you expect employees to hit the ground running simply because they are certified. Similarly, if you run a small enough operation that you don't need a training department, that tells me that your operation is very small. I remember you mentioning in the past that your company doesn't run 911 calls, which rules out a lot of the larger companies. However you essentially saying that you don't have a field training program also rules out essentially all of the larger IFT operations in LA County.

Depending on your definition of "larger ift operations". You're correct i do not do 911, i only do IFT.

 

[Shishkabob]

A medi-van is not covered by private insurance and/or medicare. An ambulance is.

Point? It should cost much less than $100.


No reason to pay a Paramedic and an EMT, and pay for an ambulance, for the vast majority of the transports that IFT companies do.

You want healthcare costs fixed? Look at the waste just associated right there.

 

[looker]

Point? It should cost much less than $100.


No reason to pay a Paramedic and an EMT, and pay for an ambulance, for the vast majority of the transports that IFT companies do.

You want healthcare costs fixed? Look at the waste just associated right there.

People do not want to pay for it. I run both nemt (medi-van) and ems. After telling them our rates, they usually say thank you and hang up. That is the last we hear from them. They do not see a reason to pay when they have medicare and can have private ambulance respond and do transport. Both small and big ems will do transport without any issue.

 

[Shishkabob]

As I mentioned in other threads, the OC company I worked for spent about $600 for initial training per employment (using the starting wage circa 2007, I imagine it's higher by now), and another $400 in driver training per employment (numbers calculated since initial field training and driver training was done on a 3 man unit). I can't imagine how $600/attendant or $1000/driver doesn't start to add up if turnover is high.

Heck, look at my agency. They send medics to an academy for nearly a month, then 2 months of FTO time before they could potentially be cleared.


That's 3 months, minimum, of paying a Paramedic their full salary without getting any actual return. Let's figure $10,000, per Paramedic, before they are released.

 

[Shishkabob]

People do not want to pay for it. I run both nemt (medi-van) and ems. After telling them our rates, they usually say thank you and hang up. That is the last we hear from them. They do not see a reason to pay when they have medicare and can have private ambulance respond and do transport. Both small and big ems will do transport without any issue.

And how is that opposite of anything I've stated?


The vast majority of current IFTs should be by taxi, medivan or the like.



I know it's cutting in to your bottom dollar as a business owner, but that's ideally what it should be.

 

[JPINFV]

Depending on your definition of "larger ift operations". You're correct i do not do 911, i only do IFT.

Pacific and Lynch size companies to use two of the larger IFT only companies in So. Cal. It would be interesting to see how a company could get around putting 40+ units on the road during a weekday without a FTO program with the "since there's a huge supply, I can act like my employees are as disposable as a pure labor market analysis says they are."

 

[looker]

Pacific and Lynch size companies to use two of the larger IFT only companies in So. Cal. It would be interesting to see how a company could get around putting 40+ units on the road during a weekday without a FTO program with the "since there's a huge supply, I can act like my employees are as disposable as a pure labor market analysis says they are."

hehehe, most companys with except of amr are not any anywhere close to the size of Pacific. Do not know about lynch, but pacific currently operates 50 ambulance in the city of la, and more in la county.

 

[Acetone]

I have another question relating to employment. In LA-county, to be a paramedic you must also be a firefighter. Is this true for all of California or just LA? Say if I go to San Francisco, am I able to try to become a paramedic w/o becoming a firefighter?

 

[JPINFV]

hehehe, most companys with except of amr are not any anywhere close to the size of Pacific. Do not know about lynch, but pacific currently operates 50 ambulance in the city of la, and more in la county.

Out of the IFT only companies, true, most aren't the size of Pacific or Lynch, or Priority 1 (considering that their 911 contract isn't in So. Cal), but once you start throwing in the 911+IFT companies, the field of larger ambulance companies starts to expand. Care, Doctors, Schaefer, etc are all larger companies that do their share of IFT work in addition to their 911 contracts. Similarly, I never commented on the average size, just a comment about the larger size.

So, I have to ask, if you were one of the larger ambulance companies in So. Cal, how would you go about hiring enough employees without a field training program? Even with these companies who do an insane number of daily runs when compared to the companies with 4 or 5 ambulances (how many does your company run?), a high turnover can put a decent size dent into profit margins.

 

[looker]

Out of the IFT only companies, true, most aren't the size of Pacific or Lynch, or Priority 1 (considering that their 911 contract isn't in So. Cal), but once you start throwing in the 911+IFT companies, the field of larger ambulance companies starts to expand. Care, Doctors, Schaefer, etc are all larger companies that do their share of IFT work in addition to their 911 contracts. Similarly, I never commented on the average size, just a comment about the larger size.

So, I have to ask, if you were one of the larger ambulance companies in So. Cal, how would you go about hiring enough employees without a field training program? Even with these companies who do an insane number of daily runs when compared to the companies with 4 or 5 ambulances (how many does your company run?), a high turnover can put a decent size dent into profit margins.

Once you get to size of 20-30 units you probably will have to get some training going.

 

[Probi]

Have to disagree, IFT is crazy boring! Sure you can learn a lot from the transfers you mentioned, however, IFTs in LA are mainly dialysis and SNF discharges, a lot of pts that could have done with out an ED to begin with. You can only learn so much from Mr. Smith with ESRD who you see every M, W, F.
While I recommend doing IFTs to begin just to get basic gurney ops, driving, and hospital roles down eventually I'd move on.
As fas as pay I make $22/hr as an IFT medic. Job isn't fun but I have learned a lot and it's nice to take a break while I'm in school and have other things going on. But come end of next semester I'll take less pay to play with lights and sirens

Man the small amount of money they pay you guys in the states should be a crime. Is it diff. if you get on as a fire medic? I know here where I live paramedics start at around 30. Still think there should be wage parity with nurses, but untill we get better unions.. what can ya do btw im in Canada