If there were no EMT-B certification .....

[paccookie]

I support keeping the EMT-B but with alot more education. A&P 1 & 2 should be required for everyone. Add general psych, abnormal psych and medical terminology on as optional. And a hell of alot more clincal than 2 shifts split between the ER and ambulance.

I totally agree with this idea.

 

[fortsmithman]

If there were no EMT-B certification as a starting point. Would you still try to get into EMS.

Here in Canada we have Primary Care Paramedic, (PCP), as our BLS level on ambulances. It is about a 1500 hour course with about 800 hours didactic/lab, 200 hours of hospital clinical and 500 hours as a student on an ambulance. The course costs about $12,000.00 (plus your living expenses) and takes about 10 months to complete.

If you knew you could get a job paying double the minimum wage plus benefits, would you quit your current job and make the time and monetary investment to be in EMS? Or does that kind of commitment scare you away?

In Alberta the entry level into EMS is EMR. If you were to try to get registered with the Alberta College of Paramedics you would only be eligible for registration as a EMT. In Alberta the Paramedic course is 2 yrs long.
These are the EMS designations in Alberta
Emergency Medical Responder
Emergency Medical Technician
Emergency Medical Technologist Paramedic

Although I am in the Northwest Territories My agency uses the designations of the Alberta College of Paramedics. EMR is the equivalent of the EMT Basic. Our EMR's are certified by NAIT Northern Alberta Institute of Technology.

 

[2serveothers]

New to the forum I am hesitant to share my thoughts, but contributing is what makes a forum a forum. In answering the threads initiating question, I personally wouldn't have been a part of EMS without the EMT-B Certification.

Now having said that my experience was while I was living in rural Wyoming where a Paramedic was unheard of. Frankly if you were fortunate to have an Intermediate on board, you also were blessed. Right, Wrong or indifferent, that was largely how rural Wyoming was.

Oft times you were lucky if you could get a ambulance staffed mid-day or heaven forbid need an additional ambulance. Our Fire dept had a roster of 54 volunteers and there primary responsibility was for Fire suppression, Extrications, and HazMat, obviously simply put. I was only one of 5 EMT's that had been cross trained enough to provide relatively proficiently play two roles volunteering for both services. We werent compensated for helping our cities citizens, we did it because if we did not, Hell there wouldn't be anyone there to help in times of need. A town of 10,000 can only support so many Nurses and the reason they were Nurses is because they got paid, and they chose to work in a semi-controlled environment.



The part I admired the most was that when Police, Fire and EMS were all on scene together, we worked together. There was no indifference, we were all there to serve, protect and do all we could to sustain life. Having been out of the Emergency Service for nearly 15 years, I have been revisiting the idea entering the field again. I have been trolling and reading the posts and wonder to myself what the worth in returning is. It would seem that becoming a BLS provider the luster of support has diminished so to speak. It also bespeaks itself that Paramedicine, Nursing, and Doctors are the only ones proficient enough to give any care worthy of its salt.

 

[firecoins]

Agreed, but, where is the A&P knowledge going to applied by the Basic? They may be able to more clearly recognize a problem, but quite often the problem recognized is something that is treated by means outside of their scope. Would be good to know for splinting though.

You can't justify increasing the scope of practice of basics, though, untill they have an actual background to work off of.

Right. Knowledge of the human body and how it works is the basis for all medical professions. EMT-Bs need to have it. What is in the EMT-B class doesn't cut it. I guess you can argue a pathophysiology class would be in order. It probably too should be required.

 

[rchristi]

I just got my EMT Basic. Previously I was a First responder although that was 20 years ago. I want to get more education and training. At the same time, the reality is that I have a full time job and it pays well. If I could not start as an EMT-B I would not have been able to start my progression of learning. Furthermore, I intend to take my skills with me when I retire to a rural area that is always short of people in their volunteer EMS. In the meantime I intend to keep getting educated and to continue learning.

 

[ILemt]

Speaking for myself:
While i mentioned in another post that some IL services are trying out the idea of only employing Medics, that is a far off dream for many vollie and POC services, as the majority of vollie rig in IL run only at the BLS or ILS level. The best you can expect of a POC service (and many pro services) is a EMT/Medic rig.

If Paramedic was the minimum, I see dark days for IL.

 

[ILemt]

Second...

I started out to volunteer in EMS... I was a full time college student (in a non-healthcare study) when I was asked to become an EMT. The basic class was held in the summer after my junior year of college. I would not have been able to complete the course of study for paramedic, nor would I have switched majors.
At present time however, i am working EMS professionally and am scheduled to attend paramedic training (its the only way to make a living in EMS) As to whether or not i personally feel an EMT is a bad thing in terms of patient care: NO! Basics are a great resource in many ways. Nor do i feel that EMTs are against furthering their education.

What would you rather have? -- A local vollie BLS or ILS ambulance with a 4 minute ETA to a trauma case/ heart attack or a 30 minute ETA by a paid ALS unit coming from a larger town?

At a minimum, a BLS or ILS crew can get a pt. immobilized, on O2 and stop bleeds and get an IV started.
(Some systems in IL allow an EMT to do ET tubes, neb treatments, cardiac monitoring and even start Saline IVs, also, an Intermediate is only two or three drugs short of a paramedic. ILS can give the full range of cardiac drugs, pain meds etc. )

If nothing else, the BLS or ILS crew can get on its way and intercept with ALS if need be.

 

[Foxbat]

If there was no EMT-B certification, I would be a first responder or just first aid certified (which I was before EMT-B class). As of being a medic... I am thinking about that, but now I am busy with working on my bachelor's degree; I will probably take A&P classes through university because I'm interested, but the whole medic program - probably no; I doubt I will have enough patient contacts to maintain ALS skills.

 

[MikeRi24]

i wouldnt trade the experience I get as a basic for anything. Working with a medic for a while, you start to learn a lot of what they do, so going into medic school you already have a basic idea of whats going on. Also, if you think about it, you can't do your medic skills without the basics, so why not start off at the basic level and build a sold foundation for yourself so you have all the core skills to fall back on.

 

[JPINFV]

Also, if you think about it, you can't do your medic skills without the basics, so why not start off at the basic level and build a sold foundation for yourself so you have all the core skills to fall back on.

Why don't physicians start off as PAs then? RNs as LVNs or CNAs?

 

[mikeylikesit]

i wouldnt trade the experience I get as a basic for anything. Working with a medic for a while, you start to learn a lot of what they do, so going into medic school you already have a basic idea of whats going on. Also, if you think about it, you can't do your medic skills without the basics, so why not start off at the basic level and build a sold foundation for yourself so you have all the core skills to fall back on.

the ideas there but a tad off, some people learn by seeing, but if they don't understand why the intervention is done on a cellular level then they could only employ the skill when the exact same circumstances show again. Unfortunately that how i learned on cars was by watching but i never would have been able to diagnose and repair as well as i can if i didn't know what was going on inside the engine.

 

[Ridryder911]

i wouldnt trade the experience I get as a basic for anything. Working with a medic for a while, you start to learn a lot of what they do, so going into medic school you already have a basic idea of whats going on. Also, if you think about it, you can't do your medic skills without the basics, so why not start off at the basic level and build a sold foundation for yourself so you have all the core skills to fall back on.

Although experience is never replaceable it can be good or bad. I much rather have a clean slate to train and work with. Really how hard is it to take vital signs, bandage, place a splint or LSB someone? Sorry, so many come into Paramedic school or exit assuming it is the same as being a Basic and then use their "short cuts" and bad habits that they have picked up over the years. Many of those become the "Paragods" and those we hear of ...'' did not perform the basics first"...

When in fact, Basic EMT and Paramedic care have NOTHING in common. Truthfully, one can become a great Paramedic without ever being an EMT, and there is NO such thing as "basic" or even "advanced" skills. Medical care is medical care.. either you can provide it or you can not. There is a reason we (EMS) are the only ones to label care as such. We do so to prevent from hurting feelings and to differentiate the care being able to be provided.

R/r 911