How to cope

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sop

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How could you cope with something like this? : You get a call about a mother who says her baby is not breathing. When you get on scene and go into the house, you see an infant lying down in a bed in the bedroom with a blooded nose. You and your crew do everything you can to save the infant’s life, but nothing works. The infant is dead, and you have been elected to tell the parents that their child is dead. After you break the news, the parents go through the stages, and you have to leave the dead baby with the parents there at the scene. :sad:
 
Did you notify the police? And wait on scene till they got there?
 
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I'd want to know why a student was elected to tell the parents...
 
There is so many things wrong with this scenario. First, if you are going to or have decided to work the infant most EMS will decide to transport. Very few have no ROSC protocols for infants, not saying it probably should not be considered.

Other things such as a "bloody nose" which maybe indications of a natural death or a form of a suspected child abuse. Alike what has previously posted, LEO should be notified no matter the situation.

As well, I doubt one will see.... " the parents go through the stages"... as in the traditional stages of death. One may see the initial stage of grief such as anger, denial, etc.. The other is the blanket statement of ...have to leave the dead baby with the parents there at the scene. ..." . This would be considered a crime scene until further evidence and alike all others, the body should not be disturbed.

Personally, I cope with this just alike any other death. Shame it occurred but cannot become emotionally involved. I am empathetic, not sympathetic in the realm that I care for those involved but keep a clear head for my next patient. My next patient demands and needs for me to be totally attentive to their needs, I cannot if I am distracted by a previous call.

Unfortunately, its just part of the job. No different in telling the spouse that had been married to their mate for 60 years that they have died.

R/r 911
 
I'm also a student with my service. What my service would is we would transport to hospital. My service wouldn't tell the parents the baby was dead because we would be working on the baby till we got to the hospital. The doctor or Coroner would make that notification. I said Coroner because there are times not many but there are time when there is no doctor in town. Most of our doctors are only here on locum. We may be getting a permanent doctor in a few months. Most communities in the Northwest Territories only have a nursing stations with RNs and LPNs a few have NPs as well.
 
I think the poster just wants to discuss handling deaths.

Pardon the crystal ball, SOP, but isn't your post about misgivings you have about your role on the scene of a death, particularly that of an infant?

More than likely you will either transport, or law enforcement ("LE") will take the body into their control. Either LE or the receiving medical facility will tell the parents.

As an EMT wanting "not to screw up" (we all get religion at some point, and the EMT's prayer is "Dear Whomever It Concerns, don't let me screw up!!"), you should be too busy trying to help the pt to worry about telling the parents. I'd worry more about parents who try to get too involved as a compensating mechanism, or who get angry.

Everyone has a type or types of calls they are less emotionally able to handle. Use whatever resources you have if a call troubles you, including talking to your boss.
 
sop said:
How could you cope with something like this? : You get a call about a mother who says her baby is not breathing. When you get on scene and go into the house, you see an infant lying down in a bed in the bedroom with a blooded nose. You and your crew do everything you can to save the infant’s life, but nothing works. The infant is dead, and you have been elected to tell the parents that their child is dead. After you break the news, the parents go through the stages, and you have to leave the dead baby with the parents there at the scene. :sad:
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Just out of curiosity, didnt you know or do some research on what this field was about before you became a student ? This is what happens, and some people cant cope, therefor they dont get into this field in the first place.
 
Yes, anytime you have a death such as that you call the police and wait for them to get there. You will have to answer questions. I’m not saying that I was involved on that call; I just wanted to know what to do if I was? What do you do, yourself, to clear your mind? It hit a nerve with one of the EMTs who just had a newborn (he’s alright now). What had happen on that incident was the mother had the baby sleeping in the same bed with her and she accidently rolled over on the baby while sleeping and killed it. I understand that this is a part of the job, and there are other people that need help. Something that would probably hit a nerve with me is if I knew someone personally. Id would have to live with that the rest of my life, not being around them anymore. But I’m not trying to wish that.
 
I dunno... it's never been anything I had to "deal with". I just go back to the station, get nekkid, and watch TV like after any other run, never giving it a second thought. In fact, I've known very, very few medics in all these years who ever had any kind of problem with these kinds of scenarios. But I did have one partner commit suicide over it too, so if it's not your cup of tea, get out now.
 
How do you deal with it if you let it get too personal?

-Talk about it with a therapist that your service *SHOULD* be supplying.

-Learn CIS (critical incident stress) management skills (which include the above option)

-Next time, don't think twice about it but rather: "it's a shame, but $hit happens and the world keeps turning".

Just my $0.02
 
sop said:
After you break the news, the parents go through the stages, and you have to leave the dead baby with the parents there at the scene.
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As the previous posters have said there are many things wrong with this scenario.

How long was the scene time? While people go through stages they do not 'click' from one to the next. Everyone is different and a stage can take up to a couple of days or more or be skipped all together.

If they get to the anger stage, you have to be aware of this and be able to protect yourself as they may direct their anger towards you.
 
Not sure why you would have left the baby with the parents. From what I have heard around here at least from an instructor who is also an EMT, even if there is obviously nothing that can be done for a baby or small child, load and go.

Gives the parents time to deal with the death and let them think everything was done that could be possibly done. Also the doctor at the hospital can inform the parents.

As for personally dealing with it, definitely talk to someone if it is really bothering you. Your dept should have CISM protocals.
 
even if there is obviously nothing that can be done for a baby or small child, load and go.
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Why? To jerk the parent's emotions around as if there's hope?

Some systems strive to be medical providers, and not just a taxi ride to the hospital. As a medical provider it's your responsiblity to not give false hope to the parents. When nothing can be done, nothing can be done and adding an ambulance bill on top of a funeral bill won't do them any good.

Gives the parents time to deal with the death
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How? By roaring away lights and sirens with their little one in the back gives them hope that there's something that can be done. Why deal with a death when you have hope your child may survive? Happens all the time on TV, after all!
 
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Sasha said:
Why? To jerk the parent's emotions around as if there's hope?

Some systems strive to be medical providers, and not just a taxi ride to the hospital. As a medical provider it's your responsiblity to not give false hope to the parents. When nothing can be done, nothing can be done and adding an ambulance bill on top of a funeral bill won't do them any good.



How? By roaring away lights and sirens with their little one in the back gives them hope that there's something that can be done. Why deal with a death when you have hope your child may survive? Happens all the time on TV, after all!
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I don't think there is any parent who would want an EMT to walk in and say sorry they are dead there is nothing we can do. Again I am just saying something I have been told by one instructor and I don't think it's a bad idea.

I am not saying tell them everything is gonna be ok, but just tell them it doesn't look good but we are gonna do everything possible. If they called 911 for an ambulance they are going to be expecting some sort of help...

Also, around here lights and sirens are not used to transport the patient to the hospital the majority of the time.
 
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trevor1189 said:
I don't think there is any parent who would want an EMT to walk in and say sorry they are dead there is nothing we can do. Again I am just saying something I have been told by one instructor and I don't think it's a bad idea.

Also, around here lights and sirens are not used to transport the patient to the hospital the majority of the time.
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I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but it's really best to wait until you're actually in class to make opinions like that.

A parent does not want their emotions toyed with. If the child is obviously dead, then the child is dead. No amount of show coding (I hate show codes.) is going to bring that back.
 
Sasha said:
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but it's really best to wait until you're actually in class to make opinions like that.

A parent does not want their emotions toyed with. If the child is obviously dead, then the child is dead. No amount of show coding (I hate show codes.) is going to bring that back.
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I don't want to sound like an ***, but please don't tell me what to think or what opinions to have.

You may hate show codes and that is fine. I was just relaying information I have been told by an EMT who has been in the service for many years. You can do whatever you want. Please remember all ambulance services are different, your way isn't necessarily the standard.
 
trevor1189 said:
I don't want to sound like an ***, but please don't tell me what to think or what opinions to have.

You may hate show codes and that is fine. I was just relaying information I have been told by an EMT who has been in the service for many years. You can do whatever you want. Please remember all ambulance services are different, your way isn't necessarily the standard.
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You are informing people of how things are when you aren't even in class to be in the field yet, parroting what you heard from someone who may or may not be a good EMT. Long time in the field doesn't equal competence.

And as I said, some ambulances services strive to be an extension of a hospital, not just a taxi ride to it, and actually expect their staff to behave like medical professionals, not taxi drivers.

Put yourself in the parents shoes. Your little two month old baby is found cold and rigid. Do you want the child to be whisked away from you in a screaming ambulance, giving you a false sense of hope, then to find out it was all hopeless, to be grieving for the second time, and to later be stuck with an extravagant ambulance/ER bill on top of funeral costs?

Or would you rather be at home, with your child, having a chance to hold them one last time, to see them without an indent in their chest from CPR and tubes down their throat and lines coming out of their scalp making peace with what has happened and greiving?
 
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Sasha said:
You are informing people of how things are when you aren't even in class to be in the field yet, parroting what you heard from someone who may or may not be a good EMT. Long time in the field doesn't equal competence.

And as I said, some ambulances services strive to be an extension of a hospital, not just a taxi ride to it, and actually expect their staff to behave like medical professionals, not taxi drivers.
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I am currently riding third member with a local ambulance service to get experience before school. So I do have some field experience.

I'm not sure why you have to dismiss everything I post. If you don't agree then fine. Post your opinion. That's why this is a forum. To get multiple ideas, not just yours.

People can see I am a student and if they choose not to listen to what I say on the forums then that is fine. But I have the same right to post here as you.
 
trevor1189 said:
I am currently riding third member with a local ambulance service to get experience before school. So I do have some field experience.

I'm not sure why you have to dismiss everything I post. If you don't agree then fine. Post your opinion. That's why this is a forum. To get multiple ideas, not just yours.

People can see I am a student and if they choose not to listen to what I say on the forums then that is fine. But I have the same right to post here as you.
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I never told you not to post, I simply said you may want to wait 'til you're in class and educated about the problem before forming an opinion on the matter. I don't go around having specific issues with anyone, if I see a post I don't agree with, I post in response. Be it you, or someone I've befriended from the site. I didn't discount you because you are a student, I just don't see how you can speak with expertise with having very limited experience and no education on the matter. I'm not saying you should only accept my idea, I'm presenting my idea. And I'm always very passionate about my opinions.
 
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