How are vollys viewed by paid EMT's?

[crashh]

i hear ya. sometimes I am amazed that the reasons people call the ambulance :glare:

On the other hand, our ambulance service is free to the public!

 

[fortsmithman]

Yeah, that has been an issue here as well. Leave the lights at home and obey traffic laws if in your POV.

And delay response time even more. Without stating that responding priority one causes more accidents. Please explain your logic on what you've just said.

There are quite a few volly systems around here. One of these is very good. They train heavily, are very professional, and good at what they do. I live rolling up and seeing these guys on scene.

Im also curious as to what percentage of calls you think benefit from a code 3 response in general

My volly service used to issue red light for our POVs but took them back. When we respond to the ambulance station in our POVs when we get toned out we are not authorized to violate any traffic laws. My volly service we train on a regular basis. As for how often we go priority 1 lights and sirens on the way to the scene we do but when we get there its not a life threatening call so we take the pt without lights and sirens. In the 4 and a half years I've been on we have only taken the pt to hospital priority 1 maybe 20 times and our service has a call volume of roughly 250 calls per year. That works out to a little over 1000 calls. in the 4 and a half years. Most of our members do have our own jump bags. Although mine sits at my home in the hall closet (I only bought it because another member was selling them and it was well stocked no drugs or O2 just dressings, bandaids, OPAs, BP cuff, and stethoscope).


When I joined we were a part of the Community Comstable's ofice (equal to a town marshal) we were issued emergency lights because we were under that office. Then we were moved to the department of public works we were tol by the director of public works not to use them. We have since became indeppendant and now report directly to town council.

 

[TransportJockey]

ok i kinda lost track of this a few posts ago,,,,


BUT


what about areas where there is NO paid positions available? our company runs completely on volleys. if we don't respond, our locals don't get any help at all.

this has all been a convo as if there was a choice. we have no choice. if we don't volly, ppl die.

And when the vollies don't respond, and enough people die, maybe your system will consider becoming a real, professional, paid system.

 

[rescue1]

what about areas where there is NO paid positions available? our company runs completely on volleys. if we don't respond, our locals don't get any help at all.

this has all been a convo as if there was a choice. we have no choice. if we don't volly, ppl die.

There's always a choice...a volunteer system simply means the community chooses not to pay the extra money for a paid EMS system. Yes, there are areas in the US that are too poor and have too few calls to have a paid ambulance, but my guess is that if push came to shove, most areas in the US could scrounge up the cash (and taxes) to pay for professional EMS.

The fact remains, however, that there is no reason for them to do so when they can get an ambulance crew for free. For good or for ill.

 

[Bullets]

And when the vollies don't respond, and enough people die, maybe your system will consider becoming a real, professional, paid system.

Just because a system is paid does not make it professional, nor does it make the volunteer "fake" or invalidate their effort.

Volunteers can be a viable solution to providing EMS in some areas, poor, remote, or low call volume can make a paid staff unrealistic.

 

[Level1pedstech]

And when the vollies don't respond, and enough people die, maybe your system will consider becoming a real, professional, paid system.

This has got to be the most insensitive thing I have seen posted on this site in a long while. Your bias towards "real,professional,paid sytems" is obvious as is your complete lack of professional courtesy. Your complete lack of compassion for those in need but without the resources to pay is astounding to say the least. Judging by your statement I can see you are without a doubt compleatly ignorant of the issues that contibute to the lack of "real,professional,paid" providers in rural areas.

You people out there wonder why there is friction between paid/volunteer providers well meet the new poster boy.

We have been down this path before but for the newer folks following along allow me to review a few things. First if there is no solid tax base there is no secure source of funding. Key word here is secure,if you can not provide the funding that is needed on a continuing basis you will not be able to recruit and retain "real,professional,paid" staff. You can fill the boot,flip hotcakes by the thousands and mooch off the feds till the cows come home but without a steady secure source of income your new sytstem will cease to exist.

Of course there is the option to rely on the paid agency next door when someone is in need but the taxes paid by thier citizens should not be epected to fund services for the poor folks down the road. Then of course we have safer grants and other sources of funding from the feds,but why should the taxes being paid by Joe Blow in Iowa be sent out to fund a "real,professional,paid system" in Alabama? The funding for these services should be obtained from the city,county or state respectively not from the feds.

My friends and fellow volunteers as you can see the enemy is alive and well. We are what they fear because we offer a solution to the problem. Our commitment as it has always been is to provide help when the call comes in and to provide our services regardless of ones ability to pay. Most of us have never been about the money our satisfaction comes from making things better for those in need I salute each and everyone f you and thank you for your service.

 

[rescue1]

My friends and fellow volunteers as you can see the enemy is alive and well. We are what they fear because we offer a solution to the problem. Our commitment as it has always been is to provide help when the call comes in and to provide our services regardless of ones ability to pay. Most of us have never been about the money our satisfaction comes from making things better for those in need I salute each and everyone f you and thank you for your service.

I think this may be a bit excessive. Regardless of how you feel on the paid/vollie issue, neither side is "the enemy". We are here for the same reasons and to do the same thing. Portraying the good and noble volunteers providing a service while the evil career staff try to drain the community for funds is not going to help the state of EMS, nor will portraying the volunteers as bumbling, incompetent fools.
The "enemy" here is systems with lack of education, training, or standards, regardless of whether their employees take home a paycheck.

 

[STXmedic]

My friends and fellow volunteers as you can see the enemy is alive and well. We are what they fear because we offer a solution to the problem. Our commitment as it has always been is to provide help when the call comes in and to provide our services regardless of ones ability to pay. Most of us have never been about the money our satisfaction comes from making things better for those in need I salute each and everyone f you and thank you for your service.

LMAO!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[Level1pedstech]

I think this may be a bit excessive. Regardless of how you feel on the paid/vollie issue, neither side is "the enemy". We are here for the same reasons and to do the same thing. Portraying the good and noble volunteers providing a service while the evil career staff try to drain the community for funds is not going to help the state of EMS, nor will portraying the volunteers as bumbling, incompetent fools.
The "enemy" here is systems with lack of education, training, or standards, regardless of whether their employees take home a paycheck.

Your are welcome to your opinion but I think the post I was replying to was excessive. I held back,man I held back. I have zero tolerance for anti volunteer blow hards.

 

[Level1pedstech]

LMAO!!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Whats your solution to a problem that is only getting worse everyday?

 

[rescue1]

Whats your solution to a problem that is only getting worse everyday?

What problem are we talking about here?

 

[STXmedic]

Whats your solution to a problem that is only getting worse everyday?

I don't remember saying I had one The volunteer agency I come across most regularly is great and we've got a great relationship with. The "enemy"? Seriously? Somebody is being a little dramatic. If you're having that much trouble with all the paid agencies, something is seriously wrong with your area. And while no, being a paid department does not automatically make its employees more professional, I have seen a tremendously larger amount of unprofessional vollies. So before condemning the other side, try some introspection.

 

[Chimpie]

I've encountered professional and unprofessional paid agencies/departments. I've encountered professional and unprofessional volunteer agencies/departments.

My guess is that one someone complains about either one of them, they are thinking of a particular agency or maybe even just a particular crew. Painting either one of these with a broad stroke is wrong.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I've encountered professional and unprofessional paid agencies/departments. I've encountered professional and unprofessional volunteer agencies/departments.

My guess is that one someone complains about either one of them, they are thinking of a particular agency or maybe even just a particular crew. Painting either one of these with a broad stroke is wrong.

Agreed. However I was responding to what I considered a very insensitive statement. I have made several contributions to this thread that show from my past experiences how a department can function with combination staff. The negative input from TJ adds nothing to what had been for the most part a positive discussion.

I do not view those that are vehemently anti volunteer as the enemy in the classis sense. Its more of a way to add bite to a discussion that like many others gets pulled off track. Anyone who entertains the idea that we should on some large scale eliminate or curtail the volunteer position is my enemy. It may not have come up in this thread but it has over the years.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I don't remember saying I had one The volunteer agency I come across most regularly is great and we've got a great relationship with. The "enemy"? Seriously? Somebody is being a little dramatic. If you're having that much trouble with all the paid agencies, something is seriously wrong with your area. And while no, being a paid department does not automatically make its employees more professional, I have seen a tremendously larger amount of unprofessional vollies. So before condemning the other side, try some introspection.

The enemy to me is not any particular paid agency its the group that advocates or invisions an all paid scenario. As far as introspection earlier I gave examples of two departments that I was associated with one where everyone was held to the same standards and the other a more classic all vollunteer department. My observations most likely coincide with yours.

I have tried on more than one occasion to show that it is possible to integrate volunteers into a department or agency that is having budget issues. If it comes down to half staffing engines or RA's with paid staff or implementing the combination model I know where I stand. Of course the best case scenario is an all paid IAFF represented department with the good wages,stellar benefits and killer retirement. Those of us that follow the issue know that type of department or agency is going to be the exception to the rule from here on out. Having combination staff that is equal in ability to thier paid counterparts is a solution that has been tried and proven to work.

My input all along has been that there should be no rivalry between the two sides. For many departments its gone past the point of should we integrate volunteers and is now how do we make the change over to the combination model.

The statement made by TJ was extremely insensitive but its his opinion I respect his right to express it but I sure dont have to accept it.

 

[Level1pedstech]

What problem are we talking about here?

The problem as I see is how to continue to provide services in these budget challenged times. Some would like volunteers to go away but unless it starts raining money thats not going to happen. I see the opposite happening and think that the combination model will be the answer to many departments staffing problems.

So paid,part time,volunteer or combination? In the case of combination should volunteers be held to the same levels of training and physical fitness as thier paid counter parts.

 

[Tigger]

The statement made by TJ was extremely insensitive but its his opinion I respect his right to express it but I sure dont have to accept it.

Get a hold of yourself and stop blowing things out of proportion. Insensitive? Really, that statement is insensitive?

Let's consider this for a second. The majority of volunteer and POC services do not staff a crew in quarters, so their service delivery is inherently inferior to that of a paid service, simply because it takes that much longer to get the ambulance out the door to the call. Let's also remember that the majority of volunteer and POC services are likely to provide only a BLS level of care. Most of the actually lifesaving BLS treatments are time dependent (AED/CP, EpiPen, bleeding control), yet these services are inherently delaying their arrival to life threatening calls. And that of course is if they respond at all, which in many areas is a significant problem.

I have no dislike for volunteers or POC systems, and I'd happily volunteer my time if the opportunity existed. There are of course places where volunteers are the only answers as a result of the citizens' choice to not pay for EMS. Some EMS is better than no EMS, but TJ is right in principle, when you rely on people to do something for nothing, eventually things go wrong.

To me his statement is far from insensitive, it sounds more like the truth.

 

[rescue1]

The problem as I see is how to continue to provide services in these budget challenged times. Some would like volunteers to go away but unless it starts raining money thats not going to happen. I see the opposite happening and think that the combination model will be the answer to many departments staffing problems.

So paid,part time,volunteer or combination? In the case of combination should volunteers be held to the same levels of training and physical fitness as thier paid counter parts.

See, I think your combination department is pretty sweet. It's a great way to blend volunteers and career personnel. However, I think the problem is that you're holding all volunteers to the standard that your combo department does. And the unfortunate fact is there are many areas that have an (all) volunteer agency that is subpar. And many of these areas (I've lived in two) could afford a fully paid or combination EMS service, but don't because the volunteers have always handled it and it saves the municipality money, or because the volunteers get upset at the idea of paid men upsetting the order of things.
And settling for a lesser service because of those reasons is just not OK

 

[Level1pedstech]

Get a hold of yourself and stop blowing things out of proportion. Insensitive? Really, that statement is insensitive?

Let's consider this for a second. The majority of volunteer and POC services do not staff a crew in quarters, so their service delivery is inherently inferior to that of a paid service, simply because it takes that much longer to get the ambulance out the door to the call. Let's also remember that the majority of volunteer and POC services are likely to provide only a BLS level of care. Most of the actually lifesaving BLS treatments are time dependent (AED/CP, EpiPen, bleeding control), yet these services are inherently delaying their arrival to life threatening calls. And that of course is if they respond at all, which in many areas is a significant problem.

I have no dislike for volunteers or POC systems, and I'd happily volunteer my time if the opportunity existed. There are of course places where volunteers are the only answers as a result of the citizens' choice to not pay for EMS. Some EMS is better than no EMS, but TJ is right in principle, when you rely on people to do something for nothing, eventually things go wrong.

To me his statement is far from insensitive, it sounds more like the truth.

For my benefit and those following along would it be possible to get a little insight into your level of experience dealing with rural agencies. More specifically have you ever been associated with an all volunteer agency in a capacity that allowed you insight into the operations aspect of that agency?

When you figure tht one out maybe you could let us who spoon fed you the "citizens choice not to pay" talking point. My guess is you have no idea what your talking about but feel you have enough inight to join a conversation that clearly is above your pay grade. Am I close?

 

[rescue1]

For my benefit and those following along would it be possible to get a little insight into your level of experience dealing with rural agencies. More specifically have you ever been associated with an all volunteer agency in a capacity that allowed you insight into the operations aspect of that agency?

When you figure tht one out maybe you could let us who spoon fed you the "citizens choice not to pay" talking point. My guess is you have no idea what your talking about but feel you have enough inight to join a conversation that clearly is above your pay grade. Am I close?

I belonged to two rural agencies just like you described. The citizens in the one agency (in one county) made a conscious effort to pay for paid ALS ambulances. The other county (next to it) didn't. It shows in the level of service provided and in response times.

Not all rural agencies are created equal.