HIPAA question

Boy. That got off the rails quickly. You have bigger issues than HIPAA.
 
mizzcemtp said:
My supervisor refused to write me up for insubordination, stating that I wasn't insubordinate-I was doing my job. She had the supervisor demoted and had me fired for insubordination. My patient on this call was unresponsive and unable to even sign for permission to transport. There are some things you just don't do, you know? It was wrong. Or in the least, I felt like it was an invasion of the patient's privacy. This volunteer is a big gossip and I felt like the patient should have been the one to let her know what her PHMx and other private matters were-if she wanted her to know.
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That was a bit of a sidewinder. Maybe I'm not getting the full story, but how exactly are full time employees fired by volunteers?

She doesn't sound like she is THAT good lookin'.
 
Grimes said:
That was a bit of a sidewinder. Maybe I'm not getting the full story, but how exactly are full time employees fired by volunteers?

She doesn't sound like she is THAT good lookin'.
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Good question Grimes... Been trying to figure that one out myself.

And, No, she isn't that good lookin'.
 
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Grimes said:
That was a bit of a sidewinder. Maybe I'm not getting the full story, but how exactly are full time employees fired by volunteers?

She doesn't sound like she is THAT good lookin'.
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Medical Director told me I did the right thing. Question is this: Do I stir up the pot and make it harder to find work down the road? Do I fight it? It should be a question of civil rights. But what is it gonna cost me in the long run? Can I change anything? It needs to be changed so badly. If you've been in EMS for any length of time, you know that admin is usually the root of all evil. This county is run by volunteers that tell you they don't fall under 'those' rules when it comes to EMS. It's sad. Several of the others that work there work under larger county systems, and they know better than that.
 
Sorry DEmedic, but it's all about HIPAA and our right NOT to provide info when asked for it. This lady calls about all calls and asks for info. I've gone into the bathroom to avoid having to take her calls. She monitors calls from her public job with a handheld portable radio (she's been warned about this by her employer). The biggest issue I had with this call-even though I strongly feel that she shouldn't request any info on any patient-is that they are co-workers at this public company. It was just wrong.
 
mizzcemtp said:
Sorry DEmedic, but it's all about HIPAA and our right NOT to provide info when asked for it. This lady calls about all calls and asks for info. I've gone into the bathroom to avoid having to take her calls. She monitors calls from her public job with a handheld portable radio (she's been warned about this by her employer). The biggest issue I had with this call-even though I strongly feel that she shouldn't request any info on any patient-is that they are co-workers at this public company. It was just wrong.
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This is much much bigger than a simple hipaa violation. You may want to seek a legal opinion and talk to your states ems regulator. Are you municipal, volly, private? Who oversees the department? Who do they answer to? The answer to these should point you where to go. Having that woman as part of an organization is a huge liability .
 
Sounds like your agency should be made aware and she should be cut loose. Pretty damn simple.

I do wanna know why we can't talk about calls with no identifying information and why some people find that inappropriate. Medical people talking about medicine with another medical person seems fine to me... Everyone else talks to coworkers about their work why can't we?
 
DEmedic said:
No. It's a personnel issue, not a HIPAA issue.
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It's a volunteer squad that's incorporated with the Vol Fire Dept. And the Corporate President at the time said that he and the volunteer in question here, were lifelong friends and if anyone was going to leave it would not be her. End of discussion. Keep in mind that I've always worked well with volunteers.. Seriously. Until her.
 
DEmedic said:
No. It's a personnel issue, not a HIPAA issue.
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She is a volunteer captain in a volunteer county. And according to the corporate president-FD and the rescue squad are incorporated-she wasn't going anywhere.
 
And what part of "it's a personnel issue" are you not hearing?

Just because she's BFFs with the past president doesn't excuse her behavior.

So it sounds like you got fired, you've got some sour grapes… And you didn't seek out an attorney.

Either get legal counsel or get over it.
 
DEmedic said:
And what part of "it's a personnel issue" are you not hearing?

Just because she's BFFs with the past president doesn't excuse her behavior.

So it sounds like you got fired, you've got some sour grapes… And you didn't seek out an attorney.

Either get legal counsel or get over it.
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Are you union where you are? What kind of legal counsel would you seek out? I'm serious. This kind of thing needs to be corrected in EMS. It's part of what keeps the 'respect' issue going. Some volunteers are great. Others, like this one, hurt this profession so badly.. By pulling stunts like this and thinking they are above silly old rules..
 
Depending on how your squad is set up, I think a supervisor has the right to know details of calls as it has to do with operations (General Healthcare Operations).

I would hope a supe who is personal with a patient would not cross any ethical boundries, but I was routinely asked about details of lots of runs by my supe. Maybe they were looking at resource management, interaction with dispatch, interaction with specific fire crews or agencies, checking on my partner, who knows. That is why they are a supe, they know more about the Operation of the organization than I do.

But I agree, it sounds like you have a bigger issue than a possible HIPAA violation going on here. Was there ever a formal complaint from the Pt? Was the supe's behavior any different with this call than other calls? Did you have other beefs with her or other squad members besides this one issue with this one Pt? I would be interested to hear HER side of the story too.

If you think you were wrongly terminated (or did you quit?) you should speak to an attorny. Doesn't matter if you are union or not. Wait, are you a volunteer?

This whole thing really doesn't make any sense to me :glare:
 
beano said:
Depending on how your squad is set up, I think a supervisor has the right to know details of calls as it has to do with operations (General Healthcare Operations).

I would hope a supe who is personal with a patient would not cross any ethical boundries, but I was routinely asked about details of lots of runs by my supe. Maybe they were looking at resource management, interaction with dispatch, interaction with specific fire crews or agencies, checking on my partner, who knows. That is why they are a supe, they know more about the Operation of the organization than I do.

But I agree, it sounds like you have a bigger issue than a possible HIPAA violation going on here. Was there ever a formal complaint from the Pt? Was the supe's behavior any different with this call than other calls? Did you have other beefs with her or other squad members besides this one issue with this one Pt? I would be interested to hear HER side of the story too.

If you think you were wrongly terminated (or did you quit?) you should speak to an attorny. Doesn't matter if you are union or not. Wait, are you a volunteer?

This whole thing really doesn't make any sense to me :glare:
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Doesn't make a lot of sense. The supervisor is the one that QA'd the call. She was medic level-also paid. No, I am not a volunteer. The supervisor was also punished by demotion and a cut in her hours. The volunteer captain is intermediate level. In charge of the volunteers and the building, maintenance, etc.... There were no medic volunteers.
 
So a volunteer fire captain, who is not your direct supervisor, had you fired and the EMS supervisor demoted? Because you would not disclose the details of an EMS run in her district?

If this is what you are saying then either A) there is more to the story, B) this is a jacked up system that you are better off not being associated with.

Also, level of training has no bearing on subordination. Corporate structure, and thus "subordination" is entirely different than level of medical training.
 
beano said:
So a volunteer fire captain, who is not your direct supervisor, had you fired and the EMS supervisor demoted? Because you would not disclose the details of an EMS run in her district?

If this is what you are saying then either A) there is more to the story, B) this is a jacked up system that you are better off not being associated with.

<snip>
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Agreed. While it could potentially be worth consulting an attorney, my gut feel is simply move on and be glad to not be associated with them any longer. In most parts of the country, paramedics seem to be in pretty high demand, and I imagine that finding another (better) assignment wouldn't be too difficult.
 
beano said:
So a volunteer fire captain, who is not your direct supervisor, had you fired and the EMS supervisor demoted? Because you would not disclose the details of an EMS run in her district?

If this is what you are saying then either A) there is more to the story, B) this is a jacked up system that you are better off not being associated with.

Also, level of training has no bearing on subordination. Corporate structure, and thus "subordination" is entirely different than level of medical training.
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I know it sounds completely ludicrous.. Trust me. It was a volunteer rescue squad captain. In a system that has 7 individual rescue squads in different districts, that each have an individual franchise issued by the county to run independently. This captain called dispatch from her personal cell phone while she was on her way to work and had our unit sent into another rescue squad's district-13 miles out of our own district-to her public job. After the call was completed, and my paid supervisor had already QA'd my pcr, this volunteer captain called from her public job and wanted to know what was wrong with the patient (her co-worker) what was done treatment-wise on the unit, and where in the hospital the patient was transported to. Not a joke. I was standing in the bay at work when the call from her came in. There were 3 other people standing within 10 feet of me (it was payday, and two employees and the husband on one of them was standing right there beside me). I was extremely nice to her, but I didn't give her the answers she asked for. When she blew up at me on the phone, I told her I wasn't comfortable answering what she was asking for as it could be a HIPAA issue, and the patient had not been able to receive/sign any privacy info-she was unresponsive at the time.

I know this sounds far fetched and unreal-but it happened. She waited 31 days-and had no communication with me at all during this time. I had been there 5 years. There was no grievance policy in place. No formal write up-because my supervisor had told her that I had just been doing my job. There was nothing. Sound unreal? It does. I know. If there had been any type of organization in place in this county, it would never have happened. How many other counties do you know of that would allow a citizen to call dispatch and have an ambulance dispatched out of their district 13 miles when they were within 4 miles of the next available service? There is also no dispatch policy in place. Not a joke either.....
 
rails said:
Agreed. While it could potentially be worth consulting an attorney, my gut feel is simply move on and be glad to not be associated with them any longer. In most parts of the country, paramedics seem to be in pretty high demand, and I imagine that finding another (better) assignment wouldn't be too difficult.
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The only problem with 'tucking my tail' and moving on is that if somebody somewhere doesn't do something to stop this type of behavior in regards to EMS where volunteers are involved, it will continue on. The paid staff with this particular group of volunteers were professionals. The volunteers were not. This is a problem with a lot of rural volunteers. And then you have the volunteers that are truly dedicated and use their volunteer status to initiate careers in EMS. Unfortunately, we see a serious lack of respect for 'professional paid staff' in this county. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that nobody has ever tried to stop them. My Lord, we all just want the patients to receive the best quality treatment, and have to fight the volunteers because they (people like this captain) feel as though they are 'above' the rules/regulations, and silly things like the federal HIPAA ruling, OSHA standards, and standards of care. More than once, this captain has remarked 'That doesn't apply to us because we're volunteers'. Does it? I mean really??
 
mizzcemtp said:
The only problem with 'tucking my tail' and moving on is that if somebody somewhere doesn't do something to stop this type of behavior in regards to EMS where volunteers are involved, it will continue on.
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Then speak with an attorney or your State Rep.


mizzcemtp said:
My Lord, we all just want the patients to receive the best quality treatment, and have to fight the volunteers because they (people like this captain) feel as though they are 'above' the rules/regulations, and silly things like the federal HIPAA ruling, OSHA standards, and standards of care. More than once, this captain has remarked 'That doesn't apply to us because we're volunteers'. Does it? I mean really??
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I don't think HIPAA does apply to certain volunteer organizations. But again, you should speak with an attorney.

Or better yet file a complaint with the feds:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html
 
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