Healthcare reform passed in the USA

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Veneficus said:
So people will be required to purchase insurance. Maybe it's just me, but if people could purchase insurance they would.

If the average single person plan is between 10-12K /year with a family plan up to 15K per year, keeping my tax return isn't going to purchase insurance for my family.

as much as I advocate that since medicine benefits society, society should bear the burdon if it, today with this plan passed, I am happy that I have an out. (residency in a country other than the United States of spiraling into the gutter with a gov. handout to already the most profitable industry in the place)

best of luck to you all
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Nix on that. This does do a bit to help with people being unable to afford health insurance. Off the top of my head I believe it's something like, the most you can be required to pay in premiums is 9% of your salary (don't remember if that's for everyone or just people making up to 400% of the poverty level). People making 133% of the poverty level will be eligible for medicare (ha!) and people making more will be able to buy insurance from gov't subsidized insurance groups. It also mandates that insurance companies spend 85% of what they collect in premiums on medical care; in theory this would potentially cut down on what was charged, but I don't know if it'll work out that way.

Doesn't in anyway solve the problem of health insurance of course, or the much broader problems that face healthcare.
 
Well said Mycrofft, mate.


So I spent about 40 mins on various wikis and government web pages trying to wrap my head around this obama care and I can't for the life of me understand it.

I don't know what the best thing is for your system, but I sure as hell am glad that I can ring the doctor when I'm feeling crook, get an appointment quickly, get blood tests, x-rays etc all of them quick and easy, get admitted, get transported, operated on, ICU'd - without worrying about a cent. And all without paying, on average, more tax than the average US citizen.

I don't know why tax bothers you all so much. I'm proud to pay it. I see schools, healthcare, disability and elderly support, roads, trains, entertainment, welfare - predominantly a happy and healthy community - and I'm proud to help pay for it. When I start earning my 60-70k with the state ambulance service something in the order of 1-2k is my contribution to healthcare. When a standard set of blood tests and appointments can cost upwards of 1000 bucks, that seems like a pretty damn good deal to me.
 
Melcin, what you and other people don't understand is this:


It's not the taxes. It's not the health care. It's the federal government overstepping its bounds, requiring something unconstitutional, fining those who don't agree with it, and saying "Screw you" to the majority.


How ANYONE can argue that that is right and ok, is beyond me.
 
Linuss said:
*Sigh* I love the debate with no merit.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=50288
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/010583.html

Each one states between 40-46million uninsured, with 36million being US citizens.

No matter which number you choose, between 4million and 13million unsinsured from the democrats own numbers of "32 million" getting insured.
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As far as I know, the reform will not extend to those who are in the US illegally or not as permanent residents. The bill is only designed for US citizens and those here legally. Sounds like all the US citizens will be insured and the remainder will be those not allowed to be here.
 
Healthcare reform bill isn't what you think.

Funny how the politicians don't ever explain anything. If you thought EMT's were being paid chump change before, just wait till after the laws come into effect. If all the ambulance companies were required to pay for your health insurance, who do you think they would charge it to? It would be taken out of your check. Also, if they have to pay for health coverage for all employees, imagine how many employees they will have to start doing away with to make up for that added expense. Also, the bill will dramatically cut medicare and medical spending across the boards, which will in turn reflect back into lower reimbursement rates per trip. That again, cuts into employers who will then cut into employees. The funds for the whole process has to come from some where and that means EMT's again get the shaft for being on the bottom of the food chain. :sad: Take it from someone who knows, I was the original Operations Manager for 2 L.A. County and L.A. City providers. I started both companies from 1 ambulance each and turned them into lean cash making machines sporting over a dozen rigs with 24/7 ops per company.
 
I got some bad news for all of you, this law is terrible. I know, most of you think wtf is this person smoking: D This law takes away precondition, among other things but let us focus on precondition and also mandatory health care in 2014.

Once pre-condition goes away in 6 month, there is no longer be reason for healthy adults to have health insurance. If/when the get sick, they can just call up and get your self-insurance the same day. So that means, only those that are at high risk will keep insurance.

Some of you will say, but what about the penalty if you do not buy the insurance in 2014, well in reality it means nothing. Let say i have PPO insurance, 750 deductible and paying 320 a month. The penalty for not having it is 750, so that means it would take me 2 1/2 month without having insurance to come out even and after that save money.

Another problem is IRS can't force you to pay up. The only thing they can do is keep your refund if you don't have health insurance that year.

So that person you transferring to the hospital after getting 911 call for dispatch, may or may not have health insurance
 
a...m...e...n...d...m...e...n...t

I'm done. Carry on.
 
Linuss said:
Melcin, what you and other people don't understand is this:


It's not the taxes. It's not the health care. It's the federal government overstepping its bounds, requiring something unconstitutional, fining those who don't agree with it, and saying "Screw you" to the majority.


How ANYONE can argue that that is right and ok, is beyond me.
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Who said the constitution was right? Maybe the bounds of the federal government want changing. So even if obama care is awesome (am I'm not saying that it is, I can't figure it out), the idea is that its still rubbish because its arguably not in line with an ideology laid down in the constitution...so change the constitution...just because its old and you learned that the founding fathers were perfect in school doesn't mean its perfect. I know its heresy to suggest, but they were only human and if the document they created doesn't allow for a good idea, then it probably needs a little updating. You blokes have an arse load of other good amendments saying lots of top notch stuff, why not add another?

I have just now realised that this is a longer version of mycrofft said, so I'll leave it there.
 
Linuss said:
Melcin, what you and other people don't understand is this:


It's not the taxes. It's not the health care. It's the federal government overstepping its bounds, requiring something unconstitutional, fining those who don't agree with it, and saying "Screw you" to the majority.


How ANYONE can argue that that is right and ok, is beyond me.
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Linuss said:
Melcin, what you and other people don't understand is this:
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Linuss said:


It's not the taxes. It's not the health care. It's the federal government overstepping its bounds, requiring something unconstitutional, fining those who don't agree with it, and saying "Screw you" to the majority.


How ANYONE can argue that that is right and ok, is beyond me.
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Agree 110% Linuss. This bill is just another step in the wrong direction.

It is NOT the government's job to see to it that people are insured. Heck, like 75% of domestic issues the government deals with are not their business anyhow. Our government has strayed so far from what it was designed to be, the founding fathers would not even recognize it.

Do I see anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights or any other amendments that a person has a right to healthcare?

And what I really want to know is this, why are the dems so dang determined to pass this bill when over 56% of polled Americans disapprove? Last time I checked, 56%-44% is a really good margin. Check the Rasmussen Reports, less than 25% agree with the Obamacare plan. When 56% completely disagree, 19% disagree with some to most of the bill and only 25% agree with most of it, why is the message not getting thru to Washington? Why are we having this thing we, as a VAST majority disapprove of literally force fed to us?

We are going socialist here. Can no one see it? If you do see it, for God's sake, do something to help stop it. A drop of water can't do much, but a tsunami is nothing more than lots of drops all in the same spot with the same drive.

While it is wrong, the healthcare bill is not the main issue I see here. The main issue I see is what Linuss seems to be calling the "Screw You" attitude taken on by our very own government.
 
^
Ok. Wow. I have no idea what happend to the quotes in my post. I was trying to quote linuss
 
Melcin, there are 27 amendments to the constitution that says that the final draft wasn't perfect. In fact, the first 10 were passed concurrently with the constitution. However, if the consitution needs changing, then we need to change it first, then pass federal run healthcare, not pass federal run health care and then change the consitution.
 
JPINFV said:
Melcin, there are 27 amendments to the constitution that says that the final draft wasn't perfect. In fact, the first 10 were passed concurrently with the constitution. However, if the consitution needs changing, then we need to change it first, then pass federal run healthcare, not pass federal run health care and then change the consitution.
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That's perfectly reasonable if it is indeed true that obamacare is unconstitutional :-) Not being an expert on either your constitution or obama-care, this is where I bow out. I just wanted to make my point about laws and constitutions and founding fathers not necessarily being perfect from the get go, and that one shouldn't be afraid of change simply because an old document says that change it a bad thing. It is not a reason not to have this plan or that plan, its simply an obstacle to it that needs addressing.

I must say, this idea of forced insurance bothers me. Sure doesn't sound like the socialised medicine I'm familiar with.

Hey lightsandsirens, you got watch them commies, they sneak around when you're busy being patriotic getting up to all kinds of no good...putting up Che Guevara posters...burning down Reichstags :P haha take it easy mate, the cold war is over;).
 
Melclin said:
Who said the constitution was right? Maybe the bounds of the federal government want changing. So even if obama care is awesome (am I'm not saying that it is, I can't figure it out), the idea is that its still rubbish because its arguably not in line with an ideology laid down in the constitution...so change the constitution...just because its old and you learned that the founding fathers were perfect in school doesn't mean its perfect. I know its heresy to suggest, but they were only human and if the document they created doesn't allow for a good idea, then it probably needs a little updating. You blokes have an arse load of other good amendments saying lots of top notch stuff, why not add another?

I have just now realised that this is a longer version of mycrofft said, so I'll leave it there.
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The constitution was also written more than 200 years ago. It may have escaped notice but things have changed a little since then.
 
Veneficus said:
The constitution was also written more than 200 years ago. It may have escaped notice but things have changed a little since then.
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Another unpopular idea it would seem. Still, I have nothing to judge that on but TV...not the best of sources.
 
lightsandsirens5 said:
^
Ok. Wow. I have no idea what happend to the quotes in my post. I was trying to quote linuss
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You were just emphasizing how smart I am ^_^


bstone said:
As far as I know, the reform will not extend to those who are in the US illegally or not as permanent residents. The bill is only designed for US citizens and those here legally. Sounds like all the US citizens will be insured and the remainder will be those not allowed to be here.
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I gave you the exact numbers already and you still failed to do the math.

Again, depending if you count illegals or not, between 3-13million will not be covered.

Melclin said:
Who said the constitution was right?
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The Constitution. It's the top law... so right or wrong, it HAS to be followed until it's changed.

No one says it's perfect, but the fact that it IS to be followed, and that it can still be changed, is one of the reasons why the US is the longest lasting single form of government in modern history, and why most of the worlds constitutions are based off of ours.

It obviously did something right to last over 240 years and be copied :P
 
This LAW is the greatest thing to come to America in 40 years. I applaud it. America has finally joined other first-world nations.
 
We're all bozos in this sandbox (to some degree). (Metacommunicational note)

I personally have a cognitive and emotional deficit: when someone says they don't understand how someone else can say something, or flat out says "wrong", or wants to know what they were thinking when they posted something, all I hear is my parents trying to get me to pick up my room and do my homework. And I get kinda parasympathetic.

Just like all these "news articles" we see here, we have no idea how this is going to spin out and nearly every bit of "information" we get has been spun and paid for. Can we do a Rodney King and get along while the truth spins out?
 
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