having a hard time getting work as an emt, should i just start the medic process?

Sasha said:
Youre wrong.

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Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?
 
lifesavingsob said:
Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?
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Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?
 
ffemt8978 said:
Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?
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LOL! Exactly. That argument died around 1976, when California entered a backwards time warp.

He is right about one thing. It is definitely easy to pick out the ones with EMT-B experience. They're the ones who think they know everything, constantly interrupt class with BS war stories, argue with the instructors and preceptors, and screw up with all the bad habits that are almost impossible to break.

There IS something a lot more dangerous than an educated medic with no experience. It's an experienced medic with inadequate education.
 
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lifesavingsob said:
Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?
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What sort of "street experience" does an EMT need to become a successful paramedic in a "high performance" system?

I'd venture to say the quality of your paramedic programs in your area are more to blame for your new paramedic's poor performance, than the mythical 'necessary street experience'.

ffemt8978 said:
Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?
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This, x100.
 
HotelCo said:
What sort of "street experience" does an EMT need to become a successful paramedic in a "high performance" system?
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For that matter, I'm dying to know what his definition of a "high-performance system" is. I'm betting he doesn't have a clue.
 
lifesavingsob said:
Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?
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Sorry, poor medics never make it in a rural system. They can be abundant in busy "high performance" systems. I will take a straight thru medic over an experienced EMT with lots of bad habits and bad attitudes!
 
80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US. I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience. I'm sorry the emt's yall deal with are not held to very good standards; judging by some of the posts I've read on here there are some pretty ignorant providers running around out there. If the emt's are idiots, then of course theyll be a terrible paramedic.
 
lifesavingsob said:
80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US.
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Wait... are you saying that "high volume" and "high performance" are the same thing? I thought you said you guys were well educated! Back to the google with you. :rofl:

I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience.
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So, with your vast experience in a grand total of one system, you're prepared to say the rest of the world is wrong? That is exactly why EMS sucks in this country. Attitudes like that.

I've worked in more countries than you have cities, so yes, I am qualified to tell you that you're wrong. And if you had any real quality education and experience, I wouldn't have to tell you. Pick up a JEMS sometime. There is a whole world outside of your "high performance" system.
 
AJ Hidell said:
Wait... are you saying that "high volume" and "high performance" are the same thing? I thought you said you guys were well educated! Back to the google with you. :rofl:


So, with your vast experience in a grand total of one system, you're prepared to say the rest of the world is wrong? That is exactly why EMS sucks in this country. Attitudes like that.

I've worked in more countries than you have cities, so yes, I am qualified to tell you that you're wrong. And if you had any real quality education and experience, I wouldn't have to tell you. Pick up a JEMS sometime. There is a whole world outside of your "high performance" system.
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Haha ok Aj... as a retiree and long time poster on this sight I'm sure it is hard to hear that you are wrong. We do have a very high volume, and because of that we are able to one of the national leaders in ems research and development. We run one of the most high performance systems in the country.
Now, congratulations on a successful career, but having worked in multiple countries does not make you qualified to tell me you are an expert on this subject. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you... but the bottom line is a well trained, experienced emt makes a better paramedic then a paramedic would no street time. Everyone is saying that emts with experience make terrible medics, so I simply assumed that all the emt's yall are dealing wih are idiots. It's your attitude giving ems a bad rep, not mine.
 
Quoting JEMS as a argument point? JEMS is half the reason EMS is where it is today. Experience or not, clinical time is what makes the difference. That and allegiance to the NREMT, the biggest fraud of EMS. Thats great that you havent been able to have steady employment, but resorting to JEMS as argument point automatically discredits anything you have to say. Most kindergarten children could read JEMS and understand it.
 
Play nice or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention
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wow guess i stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
truth be told i am a real hands on guy and would rather have more patient contacts and practical experience under my belt.
but all you guys make some excellent arguments
 
Sir, can you explain to me how it is that someone can have a poll asking if you have sex with your partner but you get upset when I ask about JEMS?
 
I'm not so sure that was directed at you. Certainly not only at you, if it was at all.
 
freebyrd said:
wow guess i stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
truth be told i am a real hands on guy and would rather have more patient contacts and practical experience under my belt.
but all you guys make some excellent arguments
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Practical experience will help you the most, good luck in your career!
 
Back to the Original Post

...as a rule I've always fallen in on the experience first, Basic Kine makes a better Paramedic. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that I have seen many surprises; 18 Month Wonders from EMT to EMT-P who slipped right in to their rhythms and -- after a couple humbling/harrowing mistakes -- turned out to be dam good medics!

I've also seen EMT's who worked long and hard as Basics and once in the field as paramedic, may as well have never been in the back of an ambulance. Some people can't quick-learn but they can slowly absorb and adapt.

So, I guess there can't be an "Across the board" statement for me.

One of the things that is most interesting to me about EMS (and, in fact keeps me coming back here!) is how much I'm learning about the diversity of approaches that medics take to their work.

Let's just say that even though I may not quite understand some attitudes on this site, in the long-run, MOST of the medics who stick around long enough reveal themselves to be highly competent and concerned practitioners who pretty much set high personal standards for themselves. They walk the talk by being available to teach, and listen, and the commonality that bugs us all is they don't hold back on what they believe.

(They also understand about limits and boundaries and intention to contribute.)

So what I'm saying is, if it works for you, work it!

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
California has probably the poorest excuse for an ems system... so your argument carries absolutely no weight!

Youre wrong.

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