having a hard time getting work as an emt, should i just start the medic process?

[sir.shocksalot]

Practical experience will help you the most, good luck in your career!

So I feel like I am well qualified to add something to this conversation. I started as a basic, had 2 years+ road time in an ALS truck, then went to Paramedic school. I can say with absolute certainty that a good basic doesn't always equal a good paramedic.

The argument of you do or do not need experience as a basic is irrelevant, I have seen good and bad medics come from both. I can say that nothing I learned as a basic really helped me in medic school. The thought process of a medic is far different than that of a basic. As a basic I was taught lower left or right quadrant abd pain described as sharp in a possibly pregnant female was an ectopic pregnancy. As a medic I was taught that the same pain could be any large number of things that must be evaluated to rule in/out their likelihood of being the disease and to treat and refer as needed.

I think the greatest benefit is knowing what you are getting into. If you hate working as a basic with BS calls and what not, then you will hate being a medic.

That all said, each school is different. Each individual going through medic school is different. There will be graduates from programs requiring experience who will be cocky but won't know their head from a hole in the ground. Same can be said for zero to hero programs.

OP your best bet is to scope out your local area and see what people think of zero to hero medics. If the area is really unfriendly to zero to hero medics then going to medic school might make it harder to get a job in your area. If local EMS people don't care, do it. Just watch your ego, study hard, and be open to the suggestions of others. There is always something to learn in medicine, and it can be learned from anyone, from the lowest tech to the greatest physician.

And to all the posters saying "I'm right, you're wrong...yada yada yada." Keeping your ears plugged and shouting your point of view isn't a great way to debate, you can view evidence of this by watching our congress do the same thing. That's what 2 year olds do. There is no right or wrong opinion, just opinions from different perspectives.

 

[Elk Oil]

i graduated at the beginning of may and passed nremt a couple of weeks later got my state cert and all that,
i eventually wanted to go on to be a paramedic anyway, but i was hoping to get on with the ambulance company who will pay for it
but i am not sure its going to work out,
so i was thinking of looking into my community college locally and see if they offered a paramedic course.
i would qualify for student grants and such since i am married with a small family and currently unemployed.
has anybody else just skipped working as an emt and just went on to medic?
i am sure academically i could do it.
i finished my emt course with honors and passed registry with no problems the first time around. i am a pretty quick study and catch on to things relatively easily.

but do you think it would make it any easier to get a job?
its hard enough in this economy right now to find work as an inexperience emt, would an ambulance company be any quicker to hire an inexperienced paramedic?
i am not sure what to do.
any opinions would be appreciated

I think that if you have experience caring for patients in an EMS setting, you're gaining an important context for additional education. Having said that, you must gain book knowledge when learning your subject matter, so striking a good balance for you is important. If you're particularly good in a classroom setting, gain that knowledge and then apply it in the street. If you're better at hands-on stuff, you may find it helpful to work in EMS while you're taking classes so you can relate the subject to actual experiences.

It's all about putting in a context that works best for you. Best of luck!

 

[freebyrd]

...as a rule I've always fallen in on the experience first, Basic Kine makes a better Paramedic. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that I have seen many surprises; 18 Month Wonders from EMT to EMT-P who slipped right in to their rhythms and -- after a couple humbling/harrowing mistakes -- turned out to be dam good medics!

I've also seen EMT's who worked long and hard as Basics and once in the field as paramedic, may as well have never been in the back of an ambulance. Some people can't quick-learn but they can slowly absorb and adapt.

So, I guess there can't be an "Across the board" statement for me.

One of the things that is most interesting to me about EMS (and, in fact keeps me coming back here!) is how much I'm learning about the diversity of approaches that medics take to their work.

Let's just say that even though I may not quite understand some attitudes on this site, in the long-run, MOST of the medics who stick around long enough reveal themselves to be highly competent and concerned practitioners who pretty much set high personal standards for themselves. They walk the talk by being available to teach, and listen, and the commonality that bugs us all is they don't hold back on what they believe.

(They also understand about limits and boundaries and intention to contribute.)

So what I'm saying is, if it works for you, work it!

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

thanks i will, and what a great bunch of replies

 

[freebyrd]

California has probably the poorest excuse for an ems system... so your argument carries absolutely no weight!

Youre wrong.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

you know, it helps to use the quote button when you make this kind of statement so it is clear who your replying to

 

[Hunter]

In MY experience, I can break experience down in two ways:

From working in a privite ambulance company I learned to talk to my patients more, initial assessment and it helped solidify the basics, Not only that it showed me that there are some amazing EMT-Bs out there, and at the same time, there are some people who should have their licenses revoked just from the way they talk to patients. I actually had one who took a "visually" BP once... What I learned doing my ride-alongs with fire department was everything else; I treated real wounds, breaks, codes, real emergency's, ect. I saw for the most part some great medics and a few terrible ones who I could do a better job than them.

EXPERIENCE as a whole can be good or bad, it just depends what kind of experience and how to take that experience. If you see someone take a short cut that's dangerous you can react one of two ways, 1. "Hey thats awesome, saves me work." or 2. "Wth?! Tat's dangerous this **** Is gonna get someone killed!" If you're reaction is #1 than you'll be a bad medic no matter what, and if you're #2, you have a much better chance of being a good medic.

 

[AJ Hidell]

We do have a very high volume, and because of that we are able to one of the national leaders in ems research and development. We run one of the most high performance systems in the country. ... I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you..

In other words, you lack the intelligent information necessary to respond. It is very obvious from your posts that you still haven't bothered to look up the definition of a "high performance system." So much for all your world-class "research and development." If you ever admit that you don't know what you are talking about long enough to look it up, you'll realise how silly you are sounding. And the rest of your argument is equally invalid.

Quoting JEMS as a argument point?

Been reading English long? Nobody quoted JEMS. Heck, even Wikipedia is more realistic than JEMS.

 

[Tux]

In my world, (which currently has nothing to do with ems) there is nothing more demeaning or frustrating then having someone who out ranks you but has no idea how to do your job, telling you how to do your job. I have no experience in your area of expertise, but i think book smart is never the equivalent to hands on experience in any job.

 

[DrParasite]

In other words, you lack the intelligent information necessary to respond. It is very obvious from your posts that you still haven't bothered to look up the definition of a "high performance system." So much for all your world-class "research and development." If you ever admit that you don't know what you are talking about long enough to look it up, you'll realise how silly you are sounding. And the rest of your argument is equally invalid.

I can see where this is going: the subjective definition of high performance system is going to result in a huge genital measuring contest, when the definition that you are looking for doesn't exist; rather, each person's definition is different based on their own opinions. and not because your argument is wrong, but because your point of view isn't the same as mine, instead of actually responding to your statement, I am just going to launch an attack against your character instead.

Been reading English long? Nobody quoted JEMS. Heck, even Wikipedia is more realistic than JEMS.

you know, I might be bordering on illiterate, but didn't you post this?

Pick up a JEMS sometime. There is a whole world outside of your "high performance" system.

Personally, I think the more sick patient contacts a paramedic has, the better a paramedic they are/will be. Similarly, if you see only patient who need advance life support intervention, you will be better at assessing and treating sick people.

The same logic extends to BLS providers. If you never deal with any sick patients, how do you know what one looks like? what about a borderline one? If you have never been on an ambulance before your paramedic clinical, all you know if what you read in the book, and have never actually done an assessment, and never actually did the job. Most paramedics I speak to have said if you are a poor EMT you will be a poor paramedic, and just because you are a good EMT there is no guarantee you will be a good medic.

Now, do we all know zero to hero medics who were successful? sure. do we all know fire medics who know their stuff? sure. conversely, do you know zero to hero medics who were sucky providers? and fire medics that you wouldn't trust to treat your worst enemy's pet iguana? absolutely. and we all know traditional 1-2 year program graduates who are great paramedics, and others who I wonder how they ever passed 3rd grade.

to the OP, should you go to medic school? sure, why not. but before you do, check out the market, can you get hired as a paramedic with no experience? ask around, see who is hiring, and what their requirements are. some require a year of experience before they will look at you. you don't want to complete medic school only to find after you graduate you still can't get a job.

 

[Iceman26]

Now, do we all know zero to hero medics who were successful? sure. do we all know fire medics who know their stuff? sure. conversely, do you know zero to hero medics who were sucky providers? and fire medics that you wouldn't trust to treat your worst enemy's pet iguana? absolutely. and we all know traditional 1-2 year program graduates who are great paramedics, and others who I wonder how they ever passed 3rd grade.

to the OP, should you go to medic school? sure, why not. but before you do, check out the market, can you get hired as a paramedic with no experience? ask around, see who is hiring, and what their requirements are. some require a year of experience before they will look at you. you don't want to complete medic school only to find after you graduate you still can't get a job.

This all about sums it up. Well said.

 

[fast65]

80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US. I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience. I'm sorry the emt's yall deal with are not held to very good standards; judging by some of the posts I've read on here there are some pretty ignorant providers running around out there. If the emt's are idiots, then of course theyll be a terrible paramedic.

This is the statement that I found to be the most interesting of all. You're saying that there are a number of "ignorant providers" out there, when you yourself are displaying the epitome of ignorance. You see, you are absolutely set in the belief that you are correct and anybody that disagrees with you is a bumbling idiot. This is medicine that we're talking about, it's a field that requires somewhat of an open mind, we have to be able to be open to new treatments, new skills, devices, etc. Sure, it's absolutely fine to have your own opinion, and to defend it of course, but when you completely shut everyone else out with no justification for your point other than "no, you're wrong", then that just screams ignorance and a lack of understanding.

Back to the topic at hand. I've seen many medics that went straight from EMT-B to EMT-P, a few of them are some of the best medics I've ever met, and others, well, they're not. I've also seen medics that had some basic experience before going to paramedic school, and there are also some good and bad medics in that bunch. It really depends on the school and on the person, if you have a student with a lot of BLS experience that's already set in their ways and closes out all new learning experiences, then you'll end up with a bad medic. But, if you have a student with no experience that wants to learn, and strives to continually improve themselves, then you'll end up with a good medic and vice versa.

Personally, I went straight to medic school after basic, and I'd like to think that I'm doing a pretty good job so far. Can I be better? Absolutely, and I'm working hard to improve every day. It seems that we'll be advocating for whatever experience we had, so really, this is just another one of those endless debates that will continue to pop up until the end of time.

Anyways, to the OP, if you know that EMS is something you really want to do, and you are willing to put the time and effort into medic school, then go for it. Good luck!

 

[Afflixion]

Sorry to jump in late, but I don't get on much anymore.

With that out of the way, I did around 8 or 9 months as a EMT before going on to becoming a paramedic... in all honesty those few months as a EMT did nothing at all that benefited me in school as a paramedic. From there I entered the Army having working knowledge as an EMT did nothing for me there either but being a paramedic helped me quite a bit. I finished up my bachelors degree in the army and went to PA school. Moral of the story is I did not got EMT>EMT-I>Paramedic>LVN>RN>BSN>PA and I can be pretty sure my "BLS" skills are on par along with my ability to practice medicine.

TLDR: Go to medic school preferably at a college where you will get real education. not "Joe Snuffy's EMS Academy"

 

[AJ Hidell]

the subjective definition of high performance system is going to result in a huge genital measuring contest, when the definition that you are looking for doesn't exist; rather, each person's definition is different based on their own opinions.

Uhhh... no. A "high performance system" in EMS is a very specific entity that does not vary from person to person, just like a broken bone. It has been very clearly defined since the erly 80s. Again, had you spent two minutes on the google -- or even a couple of years in 21st century EMS -- you would know that. Here's a little clue for you, since you obviously intend to remain ignorant: being a "high performance" system is NOT something to be proud of. It means you run primarily non-emergency IFTs, with only a smaller portion of your runs being EMS. Hardly anything that qualifies you to know anything about EMS, which you clearly don't.

I'm not attacking your character. I'm attacking your factual ignorance.

you know, I might be bordering on illiterate, but didn't you post this?

I did. And yes, if you saw me "quote" JEMS anywhere, put down the crack pipe, because you are hallucinating.

 

[crazycajun]

Uhhh... no. A "high performance system" in EMS is a very specific entity that does not vary from person to person, just like a broken bone. It has been very clearly defined since the erly 80s. Again, had you spent two minutes on the google -- or even a couple of years in 21st century EMS -- you would know that. Here's a little clue for you, since you obviously intend to remain ignorant: being a "high performance" system is NOT something to be proud of. It means you run primarily non-emergency IFTs, with only a smaller portion of your runs being EMS. Hardly anything that qualifies you to know anything about EMS, which you clearly don't.

I'm not attacking your character. I'm attacking your factual ignorance.


I did. And yes, if you saw me "quote" JEMS anywhere, put down the crack pipe, because you are hallucinating.

The term "High Performance EMS System" was coined years ago by IFT companies. Although they claim to be "HPEMS" they are in fact in most cases not. The definition of High Performance is very simply. It is to modify something to make it better than the standard. Many EMS 911 systems are in fact High Performance. Those systems have dedicated to not only be above and beyond the rest in technology, but educated experienced employees as well. Our system in Eastern South Carolina is quickly working towards being defined as an HPEMS. We have added not only technology above most (Real Time Data Transfer, Doppler, Automated PCR w/ PT recall, cutting edge dispatching system, advanced system protocols, etc.) we are currently changing protocols to change our hiring practices. Some of these include, eliminate the hiring of EMT-B, Require all EMT-I to advance to Paramedic within 3 years of hire, Paramedics must have associate degrees, etc. We are a county 911 service that does not run any IFT's by the way so your theories are incorrect.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Our system in Eastern South Carolina is quickly working towards being defined as an HPEMS. We have added not only technology above most (Real Time Data Transfer, Doppler, Automated PCR w/ PT recall, cutting edge dispatching system, advanced system protocols, etc.) we are currently changing protocols to change our hiring practices. Some of these include, eliminate the hiring of EMT-B, Require all EMT-I to advance to Paramedic within 3 years of hire, Paramedics must have associate degrees, etc. We are a county 911 service that does not run any IFT's by the way so your theories are incorrect.

That's not high performance. That's just plain awesome! Don't cheapen yourselves with the HP label.

 

[MrBrown]

Sure bro go to Paramedic school then sit around for however long it takes you to get a job with no experience and be rusty on top of being so horrendously under educated it is criminal, that will make you an awesome Paramedic!

Not, bro go work at the burger place (which probably pays more) so Brown can come in and get a greasy, fatty, artery clogging burger because Brown is hungry right now yeah?

/taking the piss

 

[Sodapop]

Original Post

My .02 to the OP would be to consider if there are jobs for medics in your area or if you are willing to relocate. I am in Cali and in Medic school here. I have had my EMT in Cali over a year and there are no jobs around here. Friends who work as EMT's that have gotten their medic can not even work as medics with their company until positions open so they sit in the drivers seat with a p-card in their wallet making EMT wages.

I do not intend to remain in Cali for a number of reasons and the poor EMS system is only one. I have worked in the south east as an EMT and the systems are head and shoulders above anything I have witnessed in Cali.

If you do choose to go the medic route there are schools in Cali that will take you with no experience. I have classmates that have no experience but they will have to prove themselves in many months of clinical internship. We also have experienced EMTs who are not doing nearly as well in the class so I feel it depends on the individual and the program they attend.

 

[CheifBud]

My way = highway ?

I actually made an account because this bothered me so much. I'm not making an eloquent long winded speech about how my opinion is law and because I'm on the internet any need for understanding or respect is thrown out the window.

If you haven't by now found out you're never going to get a straight answer; while some feel, I'm sorry, know for a fact of life and anyone else is just stupid, that experience at the EMT-B level is essential to become a decent medic. And of course the other side of the highway where you could do fine, neigh even benefit from going EMT-B > Medic with no to little experience.

So, to negate everyone's and I guess even mine at the same time; How do YOU feel about going from EMT-B to Medic. I am in the exact same boat as you I should specify, now would I love some hands on experience? You better believe I'll take any minute I can to learn and well, experience EMS, Most of my local towns even have waiting lists for VOLOUNTEERS which I would love to do. That being said I have a life and goals and I won't let completion of those goals is not going to be contingent on my "local" job market and my most basic level of training if I can help it. I say "Local" because once I obtain Medic I will hopefully be moving which will allot me a much greater employer pool.
Experience is good..... there is no question about it. That is the reason we crawl > walk, training wheels > two wheels, high school > college
As I said earlier I will take ANY opportunity to learn and gain knowledge on ANYTHING even healthcare related and will approach any job with the utmost humility. I spend a ton of time looking over old textbooks, watching hours of medical lectures on Youtube (Me not having a girlfriend may be part of the reason) and am addicted to learning anything I can and after skating through my EMT-B class with over 90% on EVERY piece of work stoned out of my mind while helping 35 y.o. grown men drop tubes and splint arms who I feel couldn't provide care to a hamster, and others who excelled at the class it was very obvious the training may be consistent but the EMT will never be. My point being if you feel competent with what you are doing, comfortable with you knowledge and want to achieve Medic regardless.... DO IT and learn everything you can, get your hands on everything you can and try to be the best damn Medic you can be, experience or not I plan on finding out every in and out of my local EMS system to the nth degree as if I was a newborn!! :rofl:

 

[dlemberg]

Awsome!

 

[freebyrd]

I actually made an account because this bothered me so much. I'm not making an eloquent long winded speech about how my opinion is law and because I'm on the internet any need for understanding or respect is thrown out the window.

If you haven't by now found out you're never going to get a straight answer; while some feel, I'm sorry, know for a fact of life and anyone else is just stupid, that experience at the EMT-B level is essential to become a decent medic. And of course the other side of the highway where you could do fine, neigh even benefit from going EMT-B > Medic with no to little experience.

So, to negate everyone's and I guess even mine at the same time; How do YOU feel about going from EMT-B to Medic. I am in the exact same boat as you I should specify, now would I love some hands on experience? You better believe I'll take any minute I can to learn and well, experience EMS, Most of my local towns even have waiting lists for VOLOUNTEERS which I would love to do. That being said I have a life and goals and I won't let completion of those goals is not going to be contingent on my "local" job market and my most basic level of training if I can help it. I say "Local" because once I obtain Medic I will hopefully be moving which will allot me a much greater employer pool.
Experience is good..... there is no question about it. That is the reason we crawl > walk, training wheels > two wheels, high school > college
As I said earlier I will take ANY opportunity to learn and gain knowledge on ANYTHING even healthcare related and will approach any job with the utmost humility. I spend a ton of time looking over old textbooks, watching hours of medical lectures on Youtube (Me not having a girlfriend may be part of the reason) and am addicted to learning anything I can and after skating through my EMT-B class with over 90% on EVERY piece of work stoned out of my mind while helping 35 y.o. grown men drop tubes and splint arms who I feel couldn't provide care to a hamster, and others who excelled at the class it was very obvious the training may be consistent but the EMT will never be. My point being if you feel competent with what you are doing, comfortable with you knowledge and want to achieve Medic regardless.... DO IT and learn everything you can, get your hands on everything you can and try to be the best damn Medic you can be, experience or not I plan on finding out every in and out of my local EMS system to the nth degree as if I was a newborn!! :rofl:

very sage words of advice, as far as how i feel,

you may have missed it in an earlier reply but all things being equal (and of course understanding that they are not)
i would certainly rather have some hands on experience, it never hurts in my opinion to learn in the environment that you wish to work in.
anyway it has been an interesting week, my interview is tomorrow at 10 am and i have been reviewing basic material over the last several days.
my wife seems to think that since i went to school there and they have access to all my records that that is a good thing for me.
can't really argue with that since i was ace's in the class and finished with academic excellence and all that stuff...blah blah blah..etc..
but who knows maybe they'll go harder on me
well wish me luck

 

[CheifBud]

BEST of luck to you, and I would think them already having a good feel for your character should help immensely^_^. I hope to take the medic program offered by my local hospital hoping that will help in the same manner when I look for a nursing job at that location.

YOU HAVE THIS IN THE BAG, hope the job goes well