Growing Body of Evidence Links Pre-hospital Use of BVMs to Negative Patient Outcomes

[Akulahawk]

I have never seen a field automatic vent other than the ones used for neo nates.

I meant, I can't imagine an automatic vent being dragged into an overturned car to be used on a patient. However a BVM can be used.

I don't have experience with them because I don't use them. We use BVMs.

Maybe its a training issue. I can tell you that we have a feedback manequin and only about 1% of my ventilations are wrong. I train like I play and I play like I train so I do it the same in the field as I do in training.

Instead of questioning someone who obviously has limited experience with something, why not take the time to educate. Thought that was the whole point of this site anyways.

From my point of view, I would rather use the BVM as a bridge device until I can intubate the patient and to get the patient's respiratory rate and such under control using an ATV of some sort. My thinking is simple: if I have to bag the patient, then I probably have to integrate the patient, and therefore if I can bring a ventilator to the patient I will do that. As a paramedic, I do not have much experience with ventilators, but I would much rather utilize a ventilator then someone that can tire quickly. Mostly the reason for not having much experience with ventilators is that we didn't have those as an option. That is not to say that I wouldn't be able to quickly learn the ins and outs of ventilator use. Worst-case scenario that I can come up with is that if I have a CPAP mask, and tubing, I might be able to adapt it to a ventilator and effectively create a ventilator – mask device. That, of course, would not be optimal. I would much rather intubate the patient and go from there.

I am also not saying that we should not become extremely proficient with the BVM. Rather quite the opposite: we should become the equivalent of a BVM God. Why? It is because mechanical stuff can fail. I would much rather become extremely proficient with the BVM and rarely have to use it for a long time then to depend upon the ventilator and have it fail and end up with the patient having a bad outcome because my BVM skills are nowhere close to par.

 

[mycrofft]

BVM is ok. BVM with any airway is a quantum leap. BVM with an airway which occludes the esophagus from inflation is another big step up.

Anyone ever see the accordion style one-use BVM's shaped like this guy's but the mask was in-line, not 9i0 deg offset; you put it over the mouth then just pushed it down to inflate, jamming the mask onto the face. They were promoted for layperson use.

The mechanics of BVM's has been steadily changing also. I like the newer ones. I have an old one with foam rubber inside to help expansion, sort of like a Nerf football; I use it as a barbecue bellows.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I have never seen a field automatic vent other than the ones used for neo nates.

I meant, I can't imagine an automatic vent being dragged into an overturned car to be used on a patient. However a BVM can be used.

I don't have experience with them because I don't use them. We use BVMs.

Maybe its a training issue. I can tell you that we have a feedback manequin and only about 1% of my ventilations are wrong. I train like I play and I play like I train so I do it the same in the field as I do in training.

Instead of questioning someone who obviously has limited experience with something, why not take the time to educate. Thought that was the whole point of this site anyways.

You are the minority when it comes to ventilation a then. Training is also different than a live, stressful situation. Not trying to be a ****, just pointing out the differences.

My transport vent is about the size of a large avocado, about the same shape too.its pneumatic, just plug it into the pigtail on my portable tank or into a port in the truck, select your settings and away it goes. Even with the circuit it's easier to fit into tight spaces than a BVM. Is it the greatest vent in the world? Far from it, but it works.

Transport times are generally <15 minutes for whoever asked.

 

[mycrofft]

So we've resurrected the Bird or Elder valves?