Forged certs

[medicRob]

the AHA is not a credentialing body. Having an ACLS or any other card they pass out does not certify you to perform any procedure or intervention. For example, if you are not permitted to place an advanced airway or administer IV meds in your scope of practice, having an ACLS card does not permit you to or increase your scope.

Some states require various levels of providers to have specific credentials, like a CPR or ACLS card, using paramedics as an example:

My home state requires paramedics to have a valid ACLS card. That means if you do not have one you cannot be certified or recertified as a paramedic. If your certification lapses and you do provie care, I would be more worried about being charged with practicing medicine without a license, than I would be assault.

If you recertified under false records or statements, you maybe looking at fraud or some other related charges.

No matter what, you would be standing before the EMS board, with a lawyer if you were smart, trying to not get banned from holding certification in the state.

Some agencies may require employees to hold specific AHA cards. I am involved with a facility that requires various AHA cards for all of its physicians. Their state license for the unrestricted practice of medicine certainly trumps an ACLS card.

I guess I should probably comment on the OP now that I am involved.

I don't think would advocate or support punishing of street providers based on some of the comments here. Since the practices were so wide spread it seems like a system failure. If I was going to start firing people, I would start with the state level employees for letting this become so common.

Thank you for your answer. My state requires Paramedics to hold BLS, ACLS, and PALS.

 

[mikeN]

If I was going to start firing people, I would start with the state level employees for letting this become so common.

You realize MA OEMS only has about 4-5 full-time employees to take care of everything OEMS related. The office is probably going to use this to their advantage, so they can get more funding so they can ACTUALLY oversee things.

One of my BLS co-workers got his NH medic a few months back and has been waiting months for his MA reciprocity. Now that this happened he is probably going to wait many more months.

 

[zmedic]

I think it depends on what the people who got the cert thought they were doing. If it were a situation where they (and I'm making this up off the top of my head) needed to recert their EMT and found some online course that wasn't approved but they thought it was that's one thing, if they just paid to get a cert that they knew was fake that is another.

Though to murky the waters is the fact that people sometimes have the right training, but not the right cert. For example, if I have a EMT from Colorado (before they went national) and wanted to move to NYC, New York wouldn't grant reciprocity. If I found an online course that claimed to be qualifying me for reciprocity I would be in a situation where I didn't have a valid New York certification, even though I had been trained properly.

All of which may have no bearing on the actual situation in the article. Just saying to look at what they people involved thought they were signing up for before starting to fire people.

 

[mikeN]

^ Everyone that signed up for the "recert" classes that never happened knew what they were doing.

 

[Veneficus]

You realize MA OEMS only has about 4-5 full-time employees to take care of everything OEMS related. The office is probably going to use this to their advantage, so they can get more funding so they can ACTUALLY oversee things.

Had no idea.

Still doesn't matter to me. If so many providers knew this was happening, I find it difficult to believe that the state authorities didn't have any idea. It simply got exposed.

If they were just sitting in an office pushing paper because they were so "overwhelmed" then they were out of touch, not exactly leadership material in my book.

 

[medicdan]

Ok, I'll throw in a personal note here. Two paramedics likely holding forged ACLS cards coded a close family member of mine a few weeks ago. I read their run sheet, and know that they did everything correctly. That likely wasn't despite the training they never received in their ACLS recert class, but because they were good providers to start with.

Who should be punished? The Instructor? The Students? The Employer who saw both employees pass preemployment testing, saw a valid card and didn't investigate further? The state office (OEMS) who saw a valid paper card, and because they are understaffed, never examined further.

Let me get this clear: The cards provided are legitimate, the class was just not. The error seems, to me, to fall with the AHA, or regional office, for not monitoring instructors appropriately.
Embarrassing, really. The real question is whether we can link this to errors in patient care, or whether it is merely fraud.

 

[bstone]

You realize MA OEMS only has about 4-5 full-time employees to take care of everything OEMS related. The office is probably going to use this to their advantage, so they can get more funding so they can ACTUALLY oversee things.

One of my BLS co-workers got his NH medic a few months back and has been waiting months for his MA reciprocity. Now that this happened he is probably going to wait many more months.

You're in Cambridge? So am I. I have a NH card. I won't be paying $300 for my card in MA.

 

[mikeN]

You're in Cambridge? So am I. I have a NH card. I won't be paying $300 for my card in MA.

I live in east cambridge. It is worth getting your MA ticket. To my understanding the pay is far better in the Boston area than it is in NH.

 

[got_shoes]

it is much better in mass then in NH trust me I know this for a fact. in my opinion the providers that cheated the system knew what they were doing. there is no doubt about that. this in reality is a awful PR nightmare for all of EMS and the fire departments that have been affected, but it will also call into question every other provider that did it the right way.

 

[bstone]

I guess I just can't imagine forging a cert. ConEd is so easy. They say it's a 4 hour class and let us go after 2.5, yet we still get 4 hours. I mean, come on!

 

[Aidey]

I know where I am you have to have a valid ACLS and CPR cert for your paramedic cert to be valid. The state requires you to have them, and if you don't you don't meet the requirements to hold your cert, and thus your cert is not valid.

I to find it hard to believe that people's managers and the state officers were totally clueless. Hopefully better oversight and accountability will come out of this.

As far as punishment, I'm of mixed thoughts. Permanently decerting possibly thousands of people seems a little excessive, but I do think the individuals involved should be punished. Whether it's a temporary ban, a fine or something else I'm not sure. The people who were actually signing off on the falsified training logs should be permanently decerted, and should have to repay any money they were paid for providing the certifications.

 

[rescue99]

^ Everyone that signed up for the "recert" classes that never happened knew what they were doing.

What is the state policy concerning fraud and license applications? Did these folks renew or attempt to renew their license by presenting an ill gotten cert as part of their continuing education? Whatever the disciplinary steps; it is what it is. My opinion...fraud is fraud. Follow the state policy and follow through with each and every one of them. There can be no exceptions so that everyone is treated equally.

 

[Medic_Forever]

An entire FD had to shut down (Lexington), as well as several privates losing much of their (medic) staff. Now that the feds are getting involved, there is a question about whether some of the medicare billing can be revoked...

Serious stuff here.

Not Sure where you got all this info. Lexington FD has not shut down. A medic in that department has been flagged as one of those giving out bogus cards though. From what i hear from OEMS, the most anyone was temporarily suspended for was 3-5 days until they completed "Emergency retraining" As far as i am hearing this is still being handled at the State levels in Both MA and NH..nothing reported about Feds yet, but who knows.

 

[Medic_Forever]

I mean, sure, we've all gone to the "4 CEU" class that turned out to be 2 hours long, but not holding the class at all is just insane.

This exact statement above is a topic that has been discussed for years at training meetings with regions and OEMS. FYI as far as OEMS is concerned your 4 hour CEU class that you only need to spend 2 hours in is considered a fraudulent class unless the instructor advises OEMS to reduce the hours. The system is a joke. Think about it. Say most of your classes in con-ed are like this (and we all know that most are) you probably sit for 15 hours of instruction out of 28 hours of CEU's your required to attend. Now whos going to complain about that right? I never complain..it is what it is. Your recert is as fraudulent as someone who takes none. There is no differentiating between completing all 28 hours, 16 hours or 0 hours. OEMS knows this and have noever done anything to fix it.

 

[Medic_Forever]

The fact that OEMS did not approve one Con-Ed class from Nov 2009 to March 2010 (because they were busy processing every recert on paper) just invited instructors to falsify training records (they tell us we cannot advertise or hold a class until we receive the approval number, then told us to hold the classes anyway).

Same thing happened to me. When i called OEMS and asked them about my poending approval numbers they told me to just hold the classes using a blank roster. When the number arrives (4 months later) just fill out the top and send it in. No problem according to OEMS. They constantly break the rules themselves. The website is usually 6 months behind as far as posting CEU's taken

 

[Medic_Forever]

Let me get this clear: The cards provided are legitimate, the class was just not. The error seems, to me, to fall with the AHA, or regional office, for not monitoring instructors appropriately.
Embarrassing, really. The real question is whether we can link this to errors in patient care, or whether it is merely fraud.

Take it a step further. We all know there is a different level of comptence between say a street medic in a busy city sytem, vs a part time medic in a rural system, vs a volunteer service that doesnt have a ton of responses. So the full time city medic that has been doing this as a career for 15-20 years has a ton of practical experience. He skips his ACLS refresher or Medic Refresher this year, ie short class or bogus class (we all know that the majority of refresher classes are 80% war stories and socializing) The volunteer Medic with not a whole lot of calls under his belt faithfully takes his refresher and requirements year after year without fail. You come up on a person with a serious trauma, or in cardiac arrest. Knowing all the facts of who took what class and who didnt, choose which medic you want working on this patient if it is your family member.

No i do not condone paying for a class you had no intention of taking. THe fault equally lies with the guy taking the money as well as the guy paying it. WHat needs to be brought into the light is the value of what they require for refreshers/con-ed etc. When you can hop online and take 90% of everything required including a refresher at all levels now in MA the system is not providing anything of value. Yes i have taken some great classes that kept my interest for the duration. I have taken many many more that didn't provide much more than fulfilling requirements. 100% revamp needs to be done at OEMS.

 

[Aidey]

Time spent in class is a tough one because sometimes you legitimately end early. Half arseing it and sending everyone home early is unacceptable, but if the class gets out 30 minutes early because there were only 2 people in the class that really isn't fraudulent to me.

 

[Medic_Forever]

My opinion...fraud is fraud. Follow the state policy and follow through with each and every one of them. There can be no exceptions so that everyone is treated equally.

As long as you throw in everyone who has taken a 3 hour class that was finished in 2 hours yet still got 3 hours credit. Same thing. Your saying no exceptions right? These people that have gotten more credits than they sat for (myself included,and none of it intentional it is what it is) are no different in the end. Yes i signed for 24 hours of continuing education but only sat for 15 hours of instruction, is no different than my 48 hour refresher was done in 30 hours, is no different than 0 hours. Look at the admin requirements for conducting con-ed from OEMS. You are required to notify OEMS of any class that does not run for the full approved time to have the credit hours reduced. So what we now sit thru is "sorry guys we were able to complete all the material in 3 hours because we have been doing this forever, so i need you to all sit here in this room and do nothing for the next hour to make sure we are here for the full 4 hours" This is the current system....it is a joke.

 

[Medic_Forever]

Time spent in class is a tough one because sometimes you legitimately end early. Half arseing it and sending everyone home early is unacceptable, but if the class gets out 30 minutes early because there were only 2 people in the class that really isn't fraudulent to me.

Unfort OEMS doesn't see it the same way we do. This incident happened in MA 4 or 5 months ago regarding a paramedic refresher. The instructor was well known, very popular, knowledgable and more than qualified to teach. All material was adequately covered and tested. So over the course of this 48 hour refresher they had completed everything including the exam and were let out the final day at like 1300 or 1330. Basically 43 or 44 hours of a 48 refresher. Someone posted a "Thank you" to the instructor for great refresher and the early out on that last friday of class on Facebook. Someone with a grudge or as a joke somehow made OEMS aware of this post. They came in and investigated. They made everybody come back in and re-do the final 2 days of the paramedic refresher class.

 

[rescue99]

As long as you throw in everyone who has taken a 3 hour class that was finished in 2 hours yet still got 3 hours credit. Same thing. Your saying no exceptions right? These people that have gotten more credits than they sat for (myself included,and none of it intentional it is what it is) are no different in the end. Yes i signed for 24 hours of continuing education but only sat for 15 hours of instruction, is no different than my 48 hour refresher was done in 30 hours, is no different than 0 hours. Look at the admin requirements for conducting con-ed from OEMS. You are required to notify OEMS of any class that does not run for the full approved time to have the credit hours reduced. So what we now sit thru is "sorry guys we were able to complete all the material in 3 hours because we have been doing this forever, so i need you to all sit here in this room and do nothing for the next hour to make sure we are here for the full 4 hours" This is the current system....it is a joke.

The suggested amount of times is 4 hours. 4 hours is not mandated. Not going to class, not participating in class and not taking the required tests is fraud. A class of 3 recert candidates lasting less than 4 hours is to be expected. Class time estimations are based on at least 6 participants per ACLS instructor. When I do an ACLS recert for 2-4 people it does take a less than 4 hours to get through everything. If I add another 2 it goes almost 4.