bstone
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Forged certs
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LucidResq
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Wow.... good job on the oversight NH and MA.
jjesusfreak01
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I'm kinda confused. In NC there is an online registry of every individual who is certified at any level in EMS. Its called CIS (Credentialing Information System). Our instructor typed in his last name and it showed his EMT-P cert, his L2 instructor cert, as well as his father's EMT-B cert. Do other states just leave it to a paper system?
The falsified certs were ACLS and BCLS (CPR), which are paper. The last (unpublished) counts I heard were that 500-600 EMTs and Paramedics were affected. An entire FD had to shut down (Lexington), as well as several privates losing much of their (medic) staff. Now that the feds are getting involved, there is a question about whether some of the medicare billing can be revoked...
Serious stuff here.
Serious stuff here.
Fox
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I don't understand why they are sending these people out to get legitimate certifications. I'd be firing them and hiring some people who were professional. I don't understand why you'd risk your whole career on something that petty and pointless. 
Guess if it's your whole department you wouldn't want to fire everyone. Business is money and all.
Guess if it's your whole department you wouldn't want to fire everyone. Business is money and all.
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lightsandsirens5
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Holy cow. What next? I say can 'em all and make them pay back all the wages they eared fraudulently. (Spelling???) h34r: Excellent job NH and MA. Absolutly outstanding. 10 points.
WA is the same way. But I like NCs name for it better. Out here it is the WADOHHCPCS (I guess?) Washington State Department of Health Healthcare Provider Credential System.
That is sad. Even here in the changeaphobic state of WA all providers from MD down to Advanced First Aid/First Responder are computerized. To give you an example of how far behind in EMS WA is, we just became like the 45th or 46th state to accept the national registry. On the other hand, WA countys have more leeway to develop their own protocols than just about any other state. Maybe it all comes out even in the end. Ok, I stop hijacking thred now.
h34r: Excellent job NH and MA. Absolutly outstanding. 10 points.WA is the same way. But I like NCs name for it better. Out here it is the WADOHHCPCS (I guess?) Washington State Department of Health Healthcare Provider Credential System.
That is sad. Even here in the changeaphobic state of WA all providers from MD down to Advanced First Aid/First Responder are computerized. To give you an example of how far behind in EMS WA is, we just became like the 45th or 46th state to accept the national registry. On the other hand, WA countys have more leeway to develop their own protocols than just about any other state. Maybe it all comes out even in the end. Ok, I stop hijacking thred now.
lightsandsirens5
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Holy.........Are you serious? The action of a few and affect so many.
Do I smell job openings? Where is Linuss, errrmmmm Sally. Sally! Want to move to NH and get a job as a medic? You can probably walk on. (After a short credential check of course.....)
mikeN
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I just read that article a bit ago. 200, even 600 EMT/paramedics is such an understatement. In MA alone, so far about 2500 people falsified their recert.
It was so widespread and widely accepted that even almost every private company and FD knew it was going on. Honestly, something like this needed to happen. Hopefully some good can come out of this and MA OEMS can get revamped and not having to keep moving to a smaller and smaller and smaller office.
It was so widespread and widely accepted that even almost every private company and FD knew it was going on. Honestly, something like this needed to happen. Hopefully some good can come out of this and MA OEMS can get revamped and not having to keep moving to a smaller and smaller and smaller office.
medicRob
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WOW.
I am speechless.
I am speechless.
I'm surprised. OEMS here keeps a pretty tight leash on stuff. I mean, sure, we've all gone to the "4 CEU" class that turned out to be 2 hours long, but not holding the class at all is just insane.
I smell lawsuits, and people spending a lot of time and money explaining that the people they used improper CPR and ACLS algorhythms on would have died anyway.
I smell lawsuits, and people spending a lot of time and money explaining that the people they used improper CPR and ACLS algorhythms on would have died anyway.
OEMS has completely and totally dropped the ball... and this is just one in a series of failures recently. AHA has dropped the ball, and Employers have dropped the ball.
The fact that OEMS did not approve one Con-Ed class from Nov 2009 to March 2010 (because they were busy processing every recert on paper) just invited instructors to falsify training records (they tell us we cannot advertise or hold a class until we receive the approval number, then told us to hold the classes anyway). OEMS doesn't even read Con-Ed outlines, only the Region office does, so the holdup wasn't substantive, only administrative, as they needed to stamp the approval number on the form.
There simply aren't any checks on the system. It's embarrassing.
The fact that OEMS did not approve one Con-Ed class from Nov 2009 to March 2010 (because they were busy processing every recert on paper) just invited instructors to falsify training records (they tell us we cannot advertise or hold a class until we receive the approval number, then told us to hold the classes anyway). OEMS doesn't even read Con-Ed outlines, only the Region office does, so the holdup wasn't substantive, only administrative, as they needed to stamp the approval number on the form.
There simply aren't any checks on the system. It's embarrassing.
Sure there are. But that's if you add the eventual investigative news story, and ensuing storm of lawsuits
mikeN
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OEMS has been doing that con-ed thing for years.
I know people that haven't been to a recert class in years. If you needed a CPR card by TOMORROW, you knew who to go to. If you didn't want to take the 24 hour BLS refresher or the 48 hour ALS refresher, you also knew who to go to. If you were in EMS, this was common knowledge.
I know people that haven't been to a recert class in years. If you needed a CPR card by TOMORROW, you knew who to go to. If you didn't want to take the 24 hour BLS refresher or the 48 hour ALS refresher, you also knew who to go to. If you were in EMS, this was common knowledge.
OP
OP
bstone
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I live in MA but did my Intermediate training (and EMT-I license) in NH.
It's shameful that so many of our fellow EMTs give us a bad name. This is not just a civil issue- it's criminal.
The people who allowed it to happen need to be punished the most, possibly even jail time. Those who got fake certs need to be banned from EMS.
It's shameful that so many of our fellow EMTs give us a bad name. This is not just a civil issue- it's criminal.
The people who allowed it to happen need to be punished the most, possibly even jail time. Those who got fake certs need to be banned from EMS.
medicRob
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This question is for someone who is VERY familiar with the laws as they apply to EMS.
If these individuals had fake ACLS certificates and say came across a situation that required them to utilize advanced procedures, could the provider be held liable for assault, given that when the patient or their family consents (either complied or explicit), they are under the assumption that the individual is properly trained to carry out such procedures, when in fact the individual is not properly certified to carry out ACLS interventions?
Wouldn't this be the same as a contract being nullified because it contained something criminal in nature or untrue?
If these individuals had fake ACLS certificates and say came across a situation that required them to utilize advanced procedures, could the provider be held liable for assault, given that when the patient or their family consents (either complied or explicit), they are under the assumption that the individual is properly trained to carry out such procedures, when in fact the individual is not properly certified to carry out ACLS interventions?
Wouldn't this be the same as a contract being nullified because it contained something criminal in nature or untrue?
Not a legal mind, but I have to point this out.
the AHA is not a credentialing body. Having an ACLS or any other card they pass out does not certify you to perform any procedure or intervention. For example, if you are not permitted to place an advanced airway or administer IV meds in your scope of practice, having an ACLS card does not permit you to or increase your scope.
Some states require various levels of providers to have specific credentials, like a CPR or ACLS card, using paramedics as an example:
My home state requires paramedics to have a valid ACLS card. That means if you do not have one you cannot be certified or recertified as a paramedic. If your certification lapses and you do provie care, I would be more worried about being charged with practicing medicine without a license, than I would be assault.
If you recertified under false records or statements, you maybe looking at fraud or some other related charges.
No matter what, you would be standing before the EMS board, with a lawyer if you were smart, trying to not get banned from holding certification in the state.
Some agencies may require employees to hold specific AHA cards. I am involved with a facility that requires various AHA cards for all of its physicians. Their state license for the unrestricted practice of medicine certainly trumps an ACLS card.
I guess I should probably comment on the OP now that I am involved.
I don't think would advocate or support punishing of street providers based on some of the comments here. Since the practices were so wide spread it seems like a system failure. If I was going to start firing people, I would start with the state level employees for letting this become so common.
the AHA is not a credentialing body. Having an ACLS or any other card they pass out does not certify you to perform any procedure or intervention. For example, if you are not permitted to place an advanced airway or administer IV meds in your scope of practice, having an ACLS card does not permit you to or increase your scope.
Some states require various levels of providers to have specific credentials, like a CPR or ACLS card, using paramedics as an example:
My home state requires paramedics to have a valid ACLS card. That means if you do not have one you cannot be certified or recertified as a paramedic. If your certification lapses and you do provie care, I would be more worried about being charged with practicing medicine without a license, than I would be assault.
If you recertified under false records or statements, you maybe looking at fraud or some other related charges.
No matter what, you would be standing before the EMS board, with a lawyer if you were smart, trying to not get banned from holding certification in the state.
Some agencies may require employees to hold specific AHA cards. I am involved with a facility that requires various AHA cards for all of its physicians. Their state license for the unrestricted practice of medicine certainly trumps an ACLS card.
I guess I should probably comment on the OP now that I am involved.
I don't think would advocate or support punishing of street providers based on some of the comments here. Since the practices were so wide spread it seems like a system failure. If I was going to start firing people, I would start with the state level employees for letting this become so common.