Firearms for EMS

[Akulahawk]

You can pick up a military surplus M-1 Garand for about $200 in the US.

Only if you're really lucky... Otherwise, about the best deal for them is the CMP. Their cost is about 2x that for a functional rifle whose bore is almost shot-out, but could still be used in a pinch if need be.

 

[JPINFV]

Only if you're really lucky... Otherwise, about the best deal for them is the CMP. Their cost is about 2x that for a functional rifle whose bore is almost shot-out, but could still be used in a pinch if need be.

I was under the impression that the CMP rifles, while used, abused, repaired, and abused some more, where still functional rifles.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Etorphine is often used to immobilize elephants and other large mammals. Etorphine is available legally only for veterinary use and is strictly governed by law. Diprenorphine (M5050), also known as Revivon, is an opioid receptor antagonist that can be administered in proportion to the amount of etorphine used (1.3 times) to reverse its effects. Veterinary-strength etorphine is fatal to humans. For this reason the package as supplied to vets always includes the human antidote as well as Etorphine.

From wiki

 

[JPINFV]

Etorphine is often used to immobilize elephants and other large mammals. Etorphine is available legally only for veterinary use and is strictly governed by law. Diprenorphine (M5050), also known as Revivon, is an opioid receptor antagonist that can be administered in proportion to the amount of etorphine used (1.3 times) to reverse its effects. Veterinary-strength etorphine is fatal to humans. For this reason the package as supplied to vets always includes the human antidote as well as Etorphine.

From wiki

...yet I don't see a single footnote in that entire passage.

 

[systemet]

Regarding etorphine (I think we had this discussion a few months back).

It's just a potent opiod. It's not categorically fatal to humans. In fact it was trialed for the treatment of cancer pain in the 70s [1]. There's case reports in the literature of intentional overdose with respiratory depression responsive to as little as 0.8mg narcan [2].

It just doesn't have a current FDA accepted use in humans, but is used in vetinary medicine, where it's useful for sedating large animals, due to it's high potency (1,000 - 80,000 times the potency of morphine, dependent upon the species considered)[3].

So, like any opiod, if you give too much, apnea will ensue, which, if untreated, will be fatal. It sounds like the agent probably doesn't offer benefits over other currently available opiods. It's the old Paracelsus, only the dose separates the poison from the cure.




[1] Blane GF, Robbie DS.Trial of etorphine hydrochloride(M99 Reckitt) in carcinoma pain: preliminary report. Br J Pharmacol. 1970 May;39(1):252P-253P.

[2] Sterken J, Troubleyn J, Gasthuys F, Maes V, Diltoer M, Verborgh C.Intentional overdose of Large Animal Immobilon.Eur J Emerg Med. 2004 Oct;11(5):298-301.

[3]Lancet. 1977 Jul 23;2(8030):178.
Immobilon: curiously strong.

 

[Akulahawk]

I was under the impression that the CMP rifles, while used, abused, repaired, and abused some more, where still functional rifles.

Their "Rack Grade" rifles can be had for about $400 or so if they have them in stock. Those are functional rifles, however, they're not going to be very accurate. These rifles would have been sent back to an armory for rebuild.

Their "Field Grade" rifles can be had for about $500 and are serviceable. Some very good shooters can be had in this category. These are within US Army spec.

Their "Service Grade" can be had for about $600 and their barrels are usually quite good, and can be made to be excellent shooters without too much extra work.

Surplus rifles can be found for around $200, but they won't be the Garand. I'd love to get my hands on a K31 or a Springfield '03 or '03A3... Never overlook bolt guns for self protection. They'll do the job if you do yours.

 

[JPINFV]

For what ever reason, I could have sworn I saw rack grade there a a week or two ago for about $200. Of course if the guns, in reality, aren't worth shooting, what's the point of buying them through CMP?

 

[Bullets]

if cost is a concern, you can find russian capture german K98s on sites like gun broker.com for under $200, solid bolt action with a good round, 8mm is a nice shot. You can also find yugoslav copies of mosin-nagants for under $100. Bolt action have less moving parts, so there is less stuff to fail

I dont know what the laws in canada are, but the saiga shotgun is a nice PDW. 3 in the tube plus one in the chamber, just a pistol grip, no butt stock, and a folding foregrip that can be vertical and horizontal. its a small piece but its great for close quarters work

 

[ol' poke]

The situation I envision the OP encountering is attending to a patient in the bush and encountering a dangerous animal. In that situation, the threat of a bear/puma/moose attach would best be defended by a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot. While a .30 caliber rifle does provide a longer range, if the threat is >50 meters away, would it not be best to just avoid it, or load-n-go while keepng a watchful eye? And if it's closer and/or closing, the spread of buckshot vs. a single projectile would offer better protection as well. Especially considering the stress level.

I love this thread! Pictures of an M1 Garand racked in the back of a bus is pretty funny! :rofl:

How do you fend off a mountain lion? Aren't you supposed to throw things and make noise to scare it away?

You are correct! Throw lead-things and the making the noise of a firearm discharged in their direction is sure to scare them away (only if you miss!) purple = sarcasm

 

[RocketMedic]

In the OPs context, I can definitely see a reason to carry a firearm with proper training. A bear or moose may or may not be deterred by noise or spray.
For suburban or urban EMS the liability for the company would be huge. We are not law enforcement nor are we guards. Firearms could indeed confer a certain degree of security but they would also make us targets for violence and theft.
For most Stateside work, a Taser seems ideal.

 

[RocketMedic]

Maybe a gun with like tranquilizers or something instead of bullets. That way no one is in danger of killing someone else and the animal doesn't get killed either but it's no longer a threat.

If you're deploying a weapon you need to be prepared to use it. Tranquilizers sound good but are not often as effective as kill loads in situations when you need to shoot.

 

[angrynuni]

Living in Arizona, well, I have no problem with it. Though I may be jaded by my states complete lack of concern for people with guns.

As for having them issued, I don't know, maybe? That's more expensive for companies who already don't like spending. From a "oh but is it safe?!!!!" stand point I could care less, you're already being trusted with a huge vehicle, drugs, needles, etc ...