Ff Vs. Emt

[Jayxbird521]

I work at a firehouse as an EMT and there seems to be alot of tention between the FF's and EMT's How Is It With Everyone Else

 

[seanm028]

Where I am, the firefighters are the EMTs... you can't even test to be an FF if you don't have an EMT cert, and the FD doesn't hire just EMTs who don't want to be FFs.

There are private ambo companies whose EMTs are not FFs, but they have their own separate stations, and when they are onscene with the FD everyone does a good job of knowing their place and not overstepping their boundaries.

 

[BossyCow]

Where I am, the firefighters are the EMTs... you can't even test to be an FF if you don't have an EMT cert, and the FD doesn't hire just EMTs who don't want to be FFs.

There are private ambo companies whose EMTs are not FFs, but they have their own separate stations, and when they are onscene with the FD everyone does a good job of knowing their place and not overstepping their boundaries.

It's the same here. There has been, in the past some friction between the FF/EMT-Bs and the FF/EMT-Ps but that even seems to have eased with the addition of more and more EMT-Ps.

 

[LucidResq]

Although it's not a requirement at the fire dept. I work with (not for), most of the FFs, especially the newer guys, are EMTs. It's basically an understood requirement, because the competition is so stiff and it's virtually impossible to get hired without your EMT-B. They try really hard to get the existing FFs to get their EMT-B and also to get the EMTs through p school. This is because they do 80% medical and 20% fire.

I haven't seen any tension between the EMTs and the few FFs who are not EMTs, but I'll bet that behind closed doors there's pressure on the regular FFs to get certified.

The FD also seems to have a really good relationship with the private ambulance company in the area that helps them with 911 calls. Probably in part because it gives them a place to dump all the BS calls and frequent fliers, but I can tell that there's mutual respect.

 

[Flight-LP]

No tension at all here....................Of course, EMS is separate from the FD............

We have a great working relationship though, no major issues......

 

[TheMowingMonk]

yeah here all the firefighters are at least EMTs, its one of our city's job requirements. In fact more of the FF around here are paramedics

 

[Ops Paramedic]

We do not have to have both, and generally the guys pick one or the other. You do have the choice two do both. I think there will always be a bit of rivalry (Which is not always a bad thing) between the medical and fire fighting side, however when it comes to doing the job, our differences are put aside and we respect each other for the reason we are there!!

 

[firecoins]

Where I live, we work with firefighter so few times, GTo wouldn't know if tension exists or not. I believe to extent there is some tension but most FDs aren't. I think that the FD wish to get called out to MVAs more often which EMS is at most of the time and FD very few. So they are generally nice to us in an attempt to get more action. Both FD and EMS are volunteer and separate organizations.

In NYC there is tension. I do medic rotations in NYC. EMS and FD are different divisions of FDNY with some hospitals providing 911 ambulances under authority of FDNY EMS. Firefighters and EMS do get along for the most part. But many firefighters have no desire to show up at EMS calls that they get dispatched to along side EMS. EMS wishes to be its own organization like they were pre Guliani era NYC.

The real tension is between NYPD and FDNY because both fight for control of various rescue scenes where both have overlapping rescue capabilities.

 

[fma08]

the FF's around here are EMT's as well. The ems service is separate and the "bigger" calls both respond. No real tension between them, that i've noticed. One of my buddies in medic class is a FF, and we joke back and forth all the time between EMS and FF.

 

[MedicPrincess]

The FD/EMS tension that is found in my area is not automatically system wide. It seems to be only certain people, have certain problems with each other.....personality issues....thats all.

I, personally, don't have problems with the FD's and won't tolerate anyone treating each other as "Just a FF" or "Just EMS" when we are working together. We are all professionals, with the same goal (hopefully) when we are with a patient.

I know, I absolutley need my FF's with me. Some of them I have been working with for 3 years and know I can count on them 110%. I consider myself fortunant to work in an area with a combine EMS/FD response on every call.

 

[JPINFV]

I know, I absolutley need my FF's with me. Some of them I have been working with for 3 years and know I can count on them 110%. I consider myself fortunant to work in an area with a combine EMS/FD response on every call.

Just wondering, what do you view as FF/EMS combined brings to the table that a single role provider doesn't?

 

[pumper12fireman]

Just wondering, what do you view as FF/EMS combined brings to the table that a single role provider doesn't?

I think it brings many good things to the table.Training and CEU's can be done together, and local protocols can be the same as well. It helps the fire dept's public image, and many combined providers that I know of are able to provide transport for no/less charge than separate services. Also, private services at times seem to be incredibly busy and overworked.

 

[JPINFV]

Not to dig to far into your post (happy to in another thread, though), but there is always a cost. The difference is between whether the patient sees that cost after a transport or at tax time.

 

[pumper12fireman]

This is true, but I believe it helps justify the FD's existence more in places that don't run a lot of fire calls. These tax increases work for an all around improved public safety system.

Just my .02

 

[MedicPrincess]

I regularly work with 3 different types of departments.....all volunteer, paid BLS dept, paid ALS dept.

Routinely, the FD's are on scene for 3-8 minutes before I can get there in my ambulance. My average response time is 8-9min. The FDs are 3-4min.
The pts are beginning to receive the care they a in need of that much sooner. For the critical patients, 8 minutes can be a long time.

Having them on scene for 3-8 minutes, if nothing else, has the "info gathering" done. Generally, by the time we get there, the vollie dept/BLS dept has the pts demographic sheet complete, meds compiled, and furniture arranged as necessary to get the pt onto the stretcher.

When the ALS dept is the initial ALS tx has been started as well. EKG, 12ld, CPAP when necessary, IV's, ect....It allows for less time to be spent gathering, arranging, ect...

I generally start my IV's enroute, as often our transport times are 20min or more.

In the area of the county I work, the people know they are not close to a hospital. The majority of the patients I encounter have passed the "could go either way" and are well into the "sick" catagory. It seems more often than not, since it is so inconvienient to get picked up from the ER, they will wait it out and see if the CP gets better, or the SOB suddenly clears up, or maybe Mom will stop acting so "funny" this evening, or maybe these aren't labor pains this time....in the last 6 months 4 babies have been delivered by EMS in our county....all of them in the south end where I work.

Having the qualified responders onscene for 8 minutes before I can get there is, if nothing else, for the patient emotionally helpful that help is there.

 

[pumper12fireman]

I regularly work with 3 different types of departments.....all volunteer, paid BLS dept, paid ALS dept.

Routinely, the FD's are on scene for 3-8 minutes before I can get there in my ambulance. My average response time is 8-9min. The FDs are 3-4min.
The pts are beginning to receive the care they a in need of that much sooner. For the critical patients, 8 minutes can be a long time.

Having them on scene for 3-8 minutes, if nothing else, has the "info gathering" done. Generally, by the time we get there, the vollie dept/BLS dept has the pts demographic sheet complete, meds compiled, and furniture arranged as necessary to get the pt onto the stretcher.

When the ALS dept is the initial ALS tx has been started as well. EKG, 12ld, CPAP when necessary, IV's, ect....It allows for less time to be spent gathering, arranging, ect...

I generally start my IV's enroute, as often our transport times are 20min or more.

In the area of the county I work, the people know they are not close to a hospital. The majority of the patients I encounter have passed the "could go either way" and are well into the "sick" catagory. It seems more often than not, since it is so inconvienient to get picked up from the ER, they will wait it out and see if the CP gets better, or the SOB suddenly clears up, or maybe Mom will stop acting so "funny" this evening, or maybe these aren't labor pains this time....in the last 6 months 4 babies have been delivered by EMS in our county....all of them in the south end where I work.

Having the qualified responders onscene for 8 minutes before I can get there is, if nothing else, for the patient emotionally helpful that help is there.

Medprincess,

I work in an area similar to yours. As a FF, I obviously support FD based EMS or EMS based fire protection, which ever way you look at it.

Many, many times we are first on scene, or if our ambulance is busy, the next ambulance is at least 15min away. As a BLS fire rig, we can do the things stated by you above.

In addition, on very critical pts. it is nice to have 6 people working the pt. as well as preparing for transport, getting a hx, and treatment.

I'm lucky not to work in a system with hosility between fire and EMS...sometimes it's not easy, but I like to think we all work to maintain a good working relationship.

 

[Jon]

Around here, I don't see a lot of hostility between EMS and the FD... their jobs are separate, and both important.

When there IS hostility or friction, it is usually over an inter-service argument.. and well over my head... I don't care if X company took territory from the FD... that was a long time ago... and I'm not involved.

Onscene... everyone is almost always working as 1 team, and gets along just fine. Many of the volunteer firefighters are also EMT's, or at least MFR's. Almost all paid FF's are AT LEAST EMT-B's. Many companies FF's cover both EMS and Fire... And if someone wants to take the ambulance and let them play on the fire truck... they are THRILLED. Additionally.. I've never seen an inter-service rivalry in a local combination department that obstructed fire suppression or patient care.

In a full-time paid department, there will be resentment that the EMS side of the firehouse isn't pulling their weight with station chores, or that the EMS crew's plectrons go off to much, because they are always running.


In my county, there isn't usually a fire response for medical calls, because most of the FD's are volunteer, and many of the ambulances are staffed by paid or combination crews, with crews on station during at least some of the day. Even if the FD and EMS are dispatched together, the FD won't arrive for several minutes after EMS is onscene. This is useful with cardiac arrests or really heavy patients... because 10 sets of hands are better than 3 or 4. Also, the fire chiefs will respond direct to the scene, and at least 1 chief officer usually beats EMS to the scene... this helps us find the scene if it is somewhere out of the way.

JayXBird... What sort of "friction" are you experiencing? Could it be that the firefighters have a problem with you, and not EMS in general?

 

[emtwacker710]

I am a member of a vol. fire company and we have 6 EMT's (myself included) out of 50 members so we all get along, we of course have the occasionaly joking around like working for the bandaid bus and all that but we are pretty much cool with each other..mainly because we all know that if one of us gets hurt on scene they are gonna need an EMT

 

[AZFF/EMT]

every FF is an emt B or P in the phoenix area. In areas where private ambo is the transport provider there is some tensiion depending on crews. I found that a certain east valley city was awesome to ambo guys who want to be ff's and not so nice to the lifer ambo people.

But in my district we are 50-50 basic and medics. each call gets a 4(2-p 2B) man engine and 2 (1-1)man rescue ambo all work together very well and emt's do a majority of the work and the medics love it.

 

[Firesurfer75]

Apples to oranges, no competition because FFs are FFs and EMTs are EMTs. I work full time for EMS, but I used to work full time for FD and was a FF/EMT. It's an excellent asset for the community to have FFs responding as EMTs, and only makes the FF more valuable and resourceful to the community. EMS is that, EMS. We all have our respected jobs and their is no grounds for tension, unfortunately sometimes that is the way it is though. Something else to keep in mind though Jay, you're on a 2 person ambulance and they are on a 4 person engine/ladder, it's going to be 4 against 2, lol, much easier for them to bully you around! All seriousness though, I am against the idea of FD based EMS especially where it is easier to get into the FD as EMT and eventually transferring/promoting to FF, it just sets a bad example of what is superior, stating up front that FFs are superior! This also affects the public that we serve, ultimately. Again, 2 different services, 2 different public needs.