Federal officers delayed, threatened to ‘shoot and arrest’ ambulance crew at Portland ICE facility, report says

[DrParasite]

A stressful situation for all involved… ICE officer likely owes the EMS crew an apology, because I doubt their actions were intentional

Federal officers delayed, threatened to ‘shoot and arrest’ ambulance crew at Portland ICE facility, report says

Willamette Week reported federal agents allegedly blocked an ambulance from quickly leaving with an injured protester on Oct. 5.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[ffemt8978]

Their actions may not have been intentional but I can see the officers point that he may have been afraid they were going to run him over, accidentally or intentionally

 

[DesertMedic66]

Their actions may not have been intentional but I can see the officers point that he may have been afraid they were going to run him over, accidentally or intentionally

Except for you know, he was standing in front of an ambulance that was wanting to leave the scene to transport their patient who was not charged with a crime nor under arrest.

 

[ffemt8978]

Except for you know, he was standing in front of an ambulance that was wanting to leave the scene to transport their patient who was not charged with a crime nor under arrest.

I know but like I said, I can understand his fear...especially given that ICE officers have been deliberately targeted by drivers. Do I think an ambulance would do such a thing? No, not even in Portland.

He could have also been delaying the ambulance until a decision was made about charging the patient. Not saying that was the case, just pointing out a possibility.

 

[CCCSD]

A stressful situation for all involved… ICE officer likely owes the EMS crew an apology, because I doubt their actions were intentional

Federal officers delayed, threatened to ‘shoot and arrest’ ambulance crew at Portland ICE facility, report says

Willamette Week reported federal agents allegedly blocked an ambulance from quickly leaving with an injured protester on Oct. 5.

www.oregonlive.com

We don’t know. Plenty of Antifa/Anti Gov/Anti Police/Pro Terror healthcare workers…

 

[DesertMedic66]

We don’t know. Plenty of Antifa/Anti Gov/Anti Police/Pro Terror healthcare workers…

We don’t know if their intentions of placing the ambulance into park were intentional or not?

 

[ffemt8978]

We don’t know if their intentions of placing the ambulance into park were intentional or not?

Placing it into park was obviously intentional...but why was it in drive with a federal officer standing in front of it?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Placing it into park was obviously intentional...but why was it in drive with a federal officer standing in front of it?

Presumably, the ambulance was in drive and moving (or about to start moving) before they were detained by the officer, and the driver then kept his foot on the brake rather than putting it in park because he thought that the any moment the issue would be resolved and they'd be able to leave. At some point, he realized that the ambulance should be in park, either because it looked like they were still going to be there for a bit or because he realized it'd be safer that way. I doubt it ever occurred to him that simply putting the transmission in park would result in death threats from an armed federal employee. I wonder what would have happened to the driver if he had acted towards the officer in a similar manner to how the officer acted towards him? Perhaps replying to the threat with something along the lines of "you threaten to shoot me again you'd better do it quickly and you'd better not miss, because otherwise I will run you right over".

 

[ffemt8978]

Presumably, the ambulance was in drive and moving (or about to start moving) before they were detained by the officer, and the driver then kept his foot on the brake rather than putting it in park because he thought that the any moment the issue would be resolved and they'd be able to leave. At some point, he realized that the ambulance should be in park, either because it looked like they were still going to be there for a bit or because he realized it'd be safer that way. I doubt it ever occurred to him that simply putting the transmission in park would result in death threats from an armed federal employee. I wonder what would have happened to the driver if he had acted towards the officer in a similar manner to how the officer acted towards him? Perhaps replying to the threat with something along the lines of "you threaten to shoot me again you'd better do it quickly and you'd better not miss, because otherwise I will run you right over".

Assuming, of course, the officer wasn't already in front of the ambulance. Its just as possible he was, and the ambulance driver intentionally put it in drive and then in park after the agent responded to it being put in drive.

We've only heard one side of the story so far, yet everyone is absolutely willing to get their daily exercise in by jumping to conclusions.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Assuming, of course, the officer wasn't already in front of the ambulance. Its just as possible he was, and the ambulance driver intentionally put it in drive and then in park after the agent responded to it being put in drive.

We've only heard one side of the story so far, yet everyone is absolutely willing to get their daily exercise in by jumping to conclusions.

I'm not sure how I'm jumping to conclusions; all we have to go on is what these articles say was in the incident reports filed by the EMS crew. Federal agents wouldn't allow an ambulance to leave the scene, and an individual agent nearly acorn'd the ambulance driver because he completely overreacted to the driver putting the ambulance in park

Is it possible that the claims made in those incident reports are untrue, or lacking important details? Sure. But they certainly sound believable to me, given the overall context, and as far as I know none of this is even in dispute. If more details emerge then we'll know more, but until then I simply have no reason to doubt the picture painted by the incident reports.

Documents Allege a Federal Agent at Portland ICE Threatened to Shoot an Ambulance Driver

Quote from the linked article:

"The two reports, filed by different medical workers, mirror each other’s accounts, and are consistent with publicly available audio recordings of emergency medical services radio communications, as well as 911 calls and dispatch reports obtained under public records law.

"Both reports say that federal agents, in an effort to block the ambulance’s departure, stood directly in front of the vehicle. As the delay dragged on, according to the reports, the ambulance operator put the vehicle into park, causing it to lurch forward slightly."

 

[ffemt8978]

By jumping to conclusions I meant taking only one side of the story and and assuming it is true and 100% factually accurate as a basis for determining if the agents actions actually happened as claimed and that they either weren't justified or allowed while dismissing the possibility the claims of the crew were not exaggerated at the least.

I'm not dismissing that an incident of some type happened, but I've been around long enough to realize there is always more than one side to every story and speculation without knowing the entire story is merely confirming biases.

 

[CCCSD]

By jumping to conclusions I meant taking only one side of the story and and assuming it is true and 100% factually accurate as a basis for determining if the agents actions actually happened as claimed and that they either weren't justified or allowed while dismissing the possibility the claims of the crew were not exaggerated at the least.

I'm not dismissing that an incident of some type happened, but I've been around long enough to realize there is always more than one side to every story and speculation without knowing the entire story is merely confirming biases.

This DOES happen quite a bit on here when LE dares to question anyone wearing a star of life. When actions taken by said wearers are commented upon, the dog piling starts because…the EMT/PM/RN ALWAYS has instant veracity…

 

[ffemt8978]

This DOES happen quite a bit on here when LE dares to question anyone wearing a star of life. When actions taken by said wearers are commented upon, the dog piling starts because…the EMT/PM/RN ALWAYS has instant veracity…

It's a natural and understandable reaction given the focus of the forum

 

[DrParasite]

This DOES happen quite a bit on here when LE dares to question anyone wearing a star of life. When actions taken by said wearers are commented upon, the dog piling starts because…the EMT/PM/RN ALWAYS has instant veracity…

Well, law enforcement has a reputation of escalating a situation for anyone who doesn't comply with their orders... how many fire apparatus operators have been cuffed by state troopers for failing to move their engine at a crash scene? While LE does have a job to do, they often forget that so does EMS, but that doesn't me LE's job trumps EMS's... We try to work together, but lets be honest, some cops wish they could throw people in jail for contempt of cop... But please tell me you aren't saying the officer was justified for his actions, assuming what is reported is accurate.

Is it possible that the claims made in those incident reports are untrue, or lacking important details? Sure. But they certainly sound believable to me, given the overall context, and as far as I know none of this is even in dispute. If more details emerge then we'll know more, but until then I simply have no reason to doubt the picture painted by the incident reports.

Documents Allege a Federal Agent at Portland ICE Threatened to Shoot an Ambulance Driver

Hey, at least the federal agent wasn't going to shoot an EMT or Paramedic; it was just a random guy who was driving the ambulance...

I actually think this paragraph from the article posted sums up the situation:

The incident described in the crew members’ two reports suggests that such hostility has been directed not only at demonstrators, but at first responders who were asked by the feds to assist. The ambulance was eventually allowed to leave the building with the patient. But the crew’s written reports of the preceding minutes offer a small but revealing sign of how on edge some federal agents working in the ICE facility are feeling—and how quick they are to take an aggressive posture when they perceive a physical threat, even from a fellow emergency worker.

Protesters outside, some who have been violent, have been obstructing roadways in and out of ICE facilities for weeks. You can find clips of them on youtube if you don't believe me. Would they have even let the ambulance leave? who knows. Assuming the facts are reported as true, yes, I think the officer over reacted due to the amount of stress the situation has caused. Apologies are warranted. No, I don't think the ambulance was trying to hit the officer, yes, I do think other vehicles have almost hit the officers, yes, the officers were trying to ensure there was a path for the ambulance to leave safely.

Again, not a good situation, but to call this a systemic issue is hardly accurate... if anything, those who are obstructing the actions of law enforcement, who are simply trying to enforce the laws as written, are the root cause of many of these issues. Back in July, attacks on ICE officers was up 700%; now it's reported as over 1000%. If only these people would let the officers enforce the law and do the job they are being paid to do, we would all be much safer and happier.

 

[ffemt8978]

Your quote brings up a possible aspect that hasn't been discussed yet about why the ambulance may have been delayed...it may have had something to do with the situation outside the building. Its possible the officer was more aware of possible risks than the driver was and was delaying them until he received info that it was safe for them to leave.

Without knowing both sides of the story we're speculating and passing judgement based upon incomplete information.

And while LE may have a reputation for escalation, EMS has similar issues in thinking they're in charge of everything where they are on scene. No, this is not as widespread as the LE issues, but it is present nonetheless. Then those who ignore lawful orders are surprised when they face consequences for their disregard.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Placing it into park was obviously intentional...but why was it in drive with a federal officer standing in front of it?

I don’t know about you but when I have a patient in the ambulance I will try to go to the hospital with them. I have shifted into drive and left my foot on the brake with people still in front of me and then once they move out of the way, I will release the brake. If that person isn’t going to move for a while or I need to do something that requires me to get out of the drivers seat I will shift into park.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Your quote brings up a possible aspect that hasn't been discussed yet about why the ambulance may have been delayed...it may have had something to do with the situation outside the building. Its possible the officer was more aware of possible risks than the driver was and was delaying them until he received info that it was safe for them to leave.

Without knowing both sides of the story we're speculating and passing judgement based upon incomplete information.

And while LE may have a reputation for escalation, EMS has similar issues in thinking they're in charge of everything where they are on scene. No, this is not as widespread as the LE issues, but it is present nonetheless. Then those who ignore lawful orders are surprised when they face consequences for their disregard.

In the report I read it said the ambulance was delayed because the officers were not sure if they were going to arrest the injured protester and the ambulance crew said they would not allow ICE to ride in on their ambulance unless the patient was in custody. So after a while it was decided the patient would not be placed in custody, no charges were ever filed, and the ICE agents decided to follow the ambulance to the hospital.

If you look at all the protests going on, I have not seen any reports from anywhere in the nation about an ambulance or fire engine being blocked or damaged.

 

[ffemt8978]

In the report I read it said the ambulance was delayed because the officers were not sure if they were going to arrest the injured protester and the ambulance crew said they would not allow ICE to ride in on their ambulance unless the patient was in custody. So after a while it was decided the patient would not be placed in custody, no charges were ever filed, and the ICE agents decided to follow the ambulance to the hospital.

If you look at all the protests going on, I have not seen any reports from anywhere in the nation about an ambulance or fire engine being blocked or damaged.

The report that is based only upon the unverified statements of the ambulance crew?

 

[ffemt8978]

I don’t know about you but when I have a patient in the ambulance I will try to go to the hospital with them. I have shifted into drive and left my foot on the brake with people still in front of me and then once they move out of the way, I will release the brake. If that person isn’t going to move for a while or I need to do something that requires me to get out of the drivers seat I will shift into park.

I used to do that, till I realized the consequences of my foot slipping off the brake for any reason.

 

[CCCSD]

Well, law enforcement has a reputation of escalating a situation for anyone who doesn't comply with their orders... how many fire apparatus operators have been cuffed by state troopers for failing to move their engine at a crash scene? While LE does have a job to do, they often forget that so does EMS, but that doesn't me LE's job trumps EMS's... We try to work together, but lets be honest, some cops wish they could throw people in jail for contempt of cop... But please tell me you aren't saying the officer was justified for his actions, assuming what is reported is accurate.

Hey, at least the federal agent wasn't going to shoot an EMT or Paramedic; it was just a random guy who was driving the ambulance...

I actually think this paragraph from the article posted sums up the situation:

Protesters outside, some who have been violent, have been obstructing roadways in and out of ICE facilities for weeks. You can find clips of them on youtube if you don't believe me. Would they have even let the ambulance leave? who knows. Assuming the facts are reported as true, yes, I think the officer over reacted due to the amount of stress the situation has caused. Apologies are warranted. No, I don't think the ambulance was trying to hit the officer, yes, I do think other vehicles have almost hit the officers, yes, the officers were trying to ensure there was a path for the ambulance to leave safely.

Again, not a good situation, but to call this a systemic issue is hardly accurate... if anything, those who are obstructing the actions of law enforcement, who are simply trying to enforce the laws as written, are the root cause of many of these issues. Back in July, attacks on ICE officers was up 700%; now it's reported as over 1000%. If only these people would let the officers enforce the law and do the job they are being paid to do, we would all be much safer and happier.

Never assume…which is what a lot are doing.
None of us was there, so the “investigational bias” is evident.