Exactly when/how to use the siren?

vcuemt said:
I'd link the "non-ambulance accidents and crashes Compilation" video from just yesterday but YouTube won't let me upload 10,000 hours of footage.

What's your point?
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While I agree that, at least for me, driving isn't that difficult (heck, 14 years of driving and zero accidents) for me, I don't share your faith with the rest of humanity.
 
beano said:
I get the joke but you''re calling the kettle black.

Driving in general is dangerous. Driving an ambulance is even more so. It's longer and heavier, top heavy, giant blind spots, you may be distracted by the radio. Using one hand to work the lights or siren, plus your adreniline and (perhaps) concern of response time or nature of the call. Take all that and add driving over the speed limit, taking on-coming, crossing multi lane intersections. Think that's easy? Ok now add the general public reacting to your lights and sirens, the drivers in your "10000 hour) YouTube.

Driving is the most dangerous part of our job, don't ever forget that. We spend a lot of time out there and you need to stay on your toes.
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Driving is one of the most dangerous things Americans do on a daily basis.

But dangerous /= difficult. That's my point.

There are a few very simple rules to follow when driving [an ambulance]. I don't think there's content enough to fill three weeks. Driving is not calculating the trajectory of each body around you based on Newtonian physics. It does not require complicated procedures, equations, or even complicated thought. Driving is, by and large, an instinctual procedure once you've been doing it for a while. It is muscle memory. None of this is to say that it isn't a dangerous process - it obviously is since as risk-taking behaviors go it's top of the list - but what exactly are you going to learn about driving an emergency vehicle in particular that you can't be taught in 16 hours? Perhaps if you're teaching someone to drive full stop then three weeks is appropriate? But before I started driving ambulances I had been driving for years. I knew what there was to know about the mechanics of driving, the rules of the road, etc. All I had to be taught was "this is how driving emergency vehicles is different".

Now! what I think the OP of this particular line of discussion might not realize/not be saying is that maybe [maybe!] the UK includes as part of their version of EVOC some of what we would normally do during driver preception. That can be a drawn out process at some companies. That would perhaps account for the difference in time.

And I should add I don't think any of us really disagree. We're just bored on the internet so we're shooting the ****.
 
vcuemt said:
Driving is one of the most dangerous things Americans do on a daily basis.
it obviously is since as risk-taking behaviors go it's top of the list - but what exactly are you going to learn about driving an emergency vehicle in particular that you can't be taught in 16 hours? Perhaps if you're teaching someone to drive full stop then three weeks is appropriate? But before I started driving ambulances I had been driving for years. I knew what there was to know about the mechanics of driving, the rules of the road, etc. All I had to be taught was "this is how driving emergency vehicles is different".

Now! what I think the OP of this particular line of discussion might not realize/not be saying is that maybe [maybe!] the UK includes as part of their version of EVOC some of what we would normally do during driver preception. That can be a drawn out process at some companies. That would perhaps account for the difference in time.

And I should add I don't think any of us really disagree. We're just bored on the internet so we're shooting the ****.
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I disagree 100%. I can tell you there are driving tests for cars that are more difficult to pass in Africa and other parts of the world than the USA. In certain agencies in the military/intelligence world there are 3 month long driving courses- JUST driving, JUST cars...on public roads at speeds similar to ambulances and of course more. One of the more secretive British outfits many people fail the course SOLELY on the driving part.

I've completed about 30 weeks of various advanced driving courses and I would not call driving easy at all, and certainly it is a skill that fades if you are not practising certain manoeuvres etc. I don't by any means want to sound arrogant here, or disrespectful- but it could be the case that there are things that you just haven't learned and are not aware about? I don't want to create a list or discuss everything that should be known, but the last course I gave was in a 3rd world nation and it was 5 days long...and that was cutting it shorter than it ought to have been!
 
1- does anybody have a separate control for a "steady burning amber lamp"? all i have is primary and secondary, and sometimes strobe.

2- i am sure your company policy requires more than the state outlines

3- why would ever want to roll code3 half a@@ed? are you "kinda" requesting the right of way?
 
beano said:
1- does anybody have a separate control for a "steady burning amber lamp"? all i have is primary and secondary, and sometimes strobe.
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I've never seen a separate control for the burning red lamp specifically, however if you ever look at an emergency vehicle responding in California, you will always see one red lamp that's steady, even if the rest are flashing.

3- why would ever want to roll code3 half a@@ed? are you "kinda" requesting the right of way?
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...because it's a bit of a **** move to go screaming through a neighborhood at 2 in the morning with the siren on when no one else is out on the road. Proper defensive driving is going to do a whole lot more to prevent accidents than a siren.
 
Which is why I said, use ALL of it, because if the poo hits the fan, you better bet that I'm gonna go in there saying that I had everything on and did everything in my power to warn other drivers of my presence. Sure there are unavoidable scenarios but as I mentioned I've saved my bacon many times by using everything that the rig has on it and being safe in driving!
 
Every rig is different, most of ours have primary, which is all lights including the one that the law required and secondaries which is basically a traffic warning setting. The whole point of this is you don't absolutely NEED to have the siren blaring for every minute of code 3 driving, it can be turned off as necessary!
 
JPINFV said:
...because it's a bit of a **** move to go screaming through a neighborhood at 2 in the morning with the siren on when no one else is out on the road. Proper defensive driving is going to do a whole lot more to prevent accidents than a siren.
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This. There is no reason to wake up hundreds of people at 2am with your siren on in a neighborhood. That is a **** move that will not make you very many friends in the community.
 
I was talking in general (ie. earlier conversation regarding CA Code 3 laws). Why use lights if no sirens?

Yes, at 2am on a residential street, sure, no need for sirens (or lights for that matter).

My point is if you don't need one, you probably don't need the other.
 
beano said:
I was talking in general (ie. earlier conversation regarding CA Code 3 laws). Why use lights if no sirens?

Yes, at 2am on a residential street, sure, no need for sirens (or lights for that matter).

My point is if you don't need one, you probably don't need the other.
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Interstate or highways is a good point for lights but no siren. Chances are if youre going sixty mph or above, you're outrunning your siren
 
beano said:
I was talking in general (ie. earlier conversation regarding CA Code 3 laws). Why use lights if no sirens?

Yes, at 2am on a residential street, sure, no need for sirens (or lights for that matter).

My point is if you don't need one, you probably don't need the other.
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...because minimum traffic is still minimum and they're likely respond to the lights. Stick the siren on manual mode and use PRN.
 
TransportJockey said:
Interstate or highways is a good point for lights but no siren. Chances are if youre going sixty mph or above, you're outrunning your siren
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To be fair, at least in my experience, if you're on the freeway going 60 mph, you're going less than the speed of traffic, thus making L/S unnecessary. Furthermore, at that speed if I'm gong the speed of traffic, I don't want people moving out of my way. Having people merging at that speed will more likely than not slow you down.
 
JPINFV said:
To be fair, at least in my experience, if you're on the freeway going 60 mph, you're going less than the speed of traffic, thus making L/S unnecessary. Furthermore, at that speed if I'm gong the speed of traffic, I don't want people moving out of my way. Having people merging at that speed will more likely than not slow you down.
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Freeway yes, but I have highways and state roads wirh minimal traffic with speed limits of 65 and above. Lights only works for those situations for us
 
DesertEMT66 said:
This. There is no reason to wake up hundreds of people at 2am with your siren on in a neighborhood. That is a **** move that will not make you very many friends in the community.
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Agreed. However, at 2am in neighborhoods, I doubt you will neither be needing to request the right of way nor exercise these exemptions much. If you are following the rules of the road and able to respond efficiently, lights and sirens are not required.
 
Again, depends on company policy too, for us if we're responding to a code 3 call, we have to be in code 3 mode, with at least lights on, siren as necessary.
 
beano said:
1- does anybody have a separate control for a "steady burning amber lamp"? all i have is primary and secondary, and sometimes strobe.
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I can shut down everything and leave only the steady red's on. I'd never run like that since it affords you zero intersection warning.

The company I work had us watch a CEVO video and then just handed us the keys. Luckily I have a family member who was an EVOC instructor and had partners early on that taught me how to drive.

I've worked with people who drive the rig like they're cruising in their Civic. I used to record most of our Code 3 calls and should make a highlight reel of the worst transports. Guys that would always pass on the right. Guys who would push cars into the intersections. Guys that would scream down the middle lane of a three lane road, three lanes in each direction, just jamming on the airhorn, and my personal favorite ever, we're coming east on a three lane road and need to make a right at the next intersection. All vehicles have pulled to the right and the left two lanes are open. Partner pulls up behind the 5 or more cars pulled over and starts laying on the airhorn. They're already pulled over! They can't pull over any farther!
 
Mufasa556 said:
The company I work had us watch a CEVO video and then just handed us the keys.
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Mufasa556 said:
I've worked with people who drive the rig like they're cruising in their Civic. I used to record most of our Code 3 calls and should make a highlight reel of the worst transports. Guys that would always pass on the right. Guys who would push cars into the intersections. Guys that would scream down the middle lane of a three lane road, three lanes in each direction, just jamming on the airhorn, and my personal favorite ever, we're coming east on a three lane road and need to make a right at the next intersection. All vehicles have pulled to the right and the left two lanes are open. Partner pulls up behind the 5 or more cars pulled over and starts laying on the airhorn. They're already pulled over! They can't pull over any farther!
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I guess you get what you pay for. If you even have the remote possibility of going code 3, I feel that it's incredibly irresponsible for companies to not put you through some form of a proper EVOC course. Watching a video and asking "Any questions?" is simply not enough.
 
Chris07 said:
I guess you get what you pay for. If you even have the remote possibility of going code 3, I feel that it's incredibly irresponsible for companies to not put you through some form of a proper EVOC course. Watching a video and asking "Any questions?" is simply not enough.
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Welcome to a majority of IFT companies in SoCal haha
 
In PA the EVOC course was really basic... parallel parking, backing up without hitting a cone behind you, driving down a narrow row of cones. No instructions on lights/siren, radio, or intersection clearing, or safely parking on busy throughfares (interstate, etc) or blocking traffic. Classroom lectures basically tell you not to hit anything. Not much more than a glorified driving test you'd get in your car for your first license. There was DEFINITELY a lot of room for improvement to the course. There are quite a few things I would do differently if I were in charge of both the EMT BLS and EVOC (now EMSVO) courses offered.
 
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