ETOH Competency?

[Margaritaville]

A little off topic here -

Croaker, I was doing the question and answer thing with an elderly lady to determine her A & O. She answered every question perfectly except for one - Who is the president of the United States? (This was in 1998).

She repeatedly stated its Ronald Reagan. Her son came out to talk to me, and I asked him if he realized that she insisted thats who the president was. He said "oh, I forgot to tell you - she doesn't like the president we have now, so she decided a while back that it'll be Reagan till someone she likes gets into office.

I'll never ask anyone that question again!!

 

[Wingnut]

That's hilarious! I actually laughed out loud reading that.

 

[PArescueEMT]

Originally posted by MedicStudentJon@Jan 17 2005, 04:12 PM
on a side note, anyone ever heard of PD having someone in custody during an aeromedical flight (talking helocoptor lands on road and cop+DUI driver go for ride)

Yes... Delco (delaware county PA) had a 3 veh MVC w/ 1 ETOH. ETOH flew to HUP with lansdowne sending an officer to the Hosp when the bird landed on scene.

BTW, the ETOH was on a donor cycle (2250cc ish yamaha) but suprisingly, YES he DID have a helmet on.

 

[ResTech]

In Pennsylvania if a patient is intoxicated with ETOH then they cannot refuse under the premise that ETOH inhibits clear and rational thinking and decision making. If a patient decides to drink and drive they give up their right to make any decision. If the patient was capable of making a rational decision they would'nt have got drunk and then got behind the wheel to begin with so they already demonstrated they aren't capable of making decisions.

The dilemma I run into most often is a liability issue when the police department is on-scene. If the pt. is obviously intoxicated but has no apparent injuries what do you do? You can't let them refuse due to their altered mental state. So do you automatically let the police take them into custody? What about the transfer of care? As an EMS provider are we legally permitted to transfer a patient to a person with a lesser level of training (ie. the police officer) then we have? Of course, not. Alot of providers I run with let the PD take the patient into custody with no problem but I feel that is opening a stage of alot of liability.

I always call medical command and explain the situation and let them make the call as to the patients disposition. The last situation I had MC advised it was ok to release to PD which is what I did.

Alot to think about and to overlook. Just one of those medical-legal issues that can bite ya.

 

[ffemt8978]

Originally posted by ResTech@Jan 28 2005, 09:10 AM
I always call medical command and explain the situation and let them make the call as to the patients disposition. The last situation I had MC advised it was ok to release to PD which is what I did.

We recently had a call where this became an issue.

Paged out for a water rescue of a guy that had fallen through the ice while trying to rescue a dog. RP stated they hadn't seen the subject for over 10 minutes, but that he had been drinking. We arrive and find the Pt, who had walked chest deep through the pond to a jetty and then walked over towards us. Pt. had ETOH on his breath, and admitted to drinking all morning. We get him in the rig and start to warm him up, but he wants to refuse transport. I talk to him a bit, and he agrees to go to the hospital up until I prep him for an IV. Now he wants to refuse again, and we can't convince him to go to the hospital. Occular temp was 94.1 F (our first reading was too low to indicate on our thermometer).

I call Medical Control and ask to speak to a doc. The nurse who answered informed me that she was medical control and wanted to know why I needed to speak to a doctor. I explained the situation, and she then asks me why I'm even calling her to obtain permission for this guy to RMA :angry: . I demand to speak to the doc, who she finally puts on the phone and explain the situation to him. Doc talks to Pt for a couple of minutes, and then tells me it's okay for him to RMA as long as someone will be at his house to watch him the rest of the day.

I just didn't feel right letting a hypothermic, possibly intoxicated patient sign RMA papers, so I bucked it on up to the MD level and put his license on the line.