ER Nurses make horrible Paramedic precepters

[Carlos Danger]

Why do you have nurses precepting paramedic students?

Because there are a lot of basic skills that paramedic students need to learn that nurses do a lot of.

aren't nurses and paramedics supposed to be equals?

What does 'equality' have to do with it? Aren't paramedic students also precepted by paramedics?

 

[Tigger]

the thread title is pretty blanket statement to make based N=1.

I wouldn't want to learn how to stick an IV from a doc who probly hasn't done it since before residency.

Pretty much this. "Me have bad time, nurses are bad."

If your program does not communicate with the people precepting you what the goals of your experience should be it's kind of hard to blame the people.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

Maybe I am off here but could the reason the nurses don't like medics student be that they are there for the skills and not the education? I know that was a very general and large brush stroke and I know not all programs and student act that way, but I have had alot and seen a lot of students that only cared about the skills and couldn't be bothered to lift a finger for anything else.

Maybe part of the problem is a culture of bashing nurses and their "nursing model" of education. By that I mean I think a lot of medics don't think nurses have anything to teach them besides skills.

 

[Akulahawk]

Maybe part of the problem is a culture of bashing nurses and their "nursing model" of education. By that I mean I think a lot of medics don't think nurses have anything to teach them besides skills.

In some ways, I think the reverse is also true as well.

I should certainly say that I had some very good RN preceptors in the ED when I was doing my hospital internship while in Paramedic school. My primary RN preceptor had been a Paramedic for about 7 years before becoming an RN and while she had been an ED RN (at that point) for nearly 10 years, she still kept her Paramedic license active. She certainly understood what was needed in the field and could show how the things I did in the field could affect patient outcomes in the hospital. I would have been nice to get in-patient experience during that time, but not for "skills" practice, but more for seeing patient flow through the hospital.

 

[hogwiley]

I'm not really complaining about RNs being mean. The meanest precepters I've had by far were Paramedics or RNs that were/are Paramedics. But while they may not have minced words or shyed away from letting a student know it if they screw up or aren't doing things good enough, most of them also at least taught.

The problem with a lot of the non Paramedic RNs though is that they pretty much ignored Paramedic students, or didn't really seem to know or care what would be beneficial for them. Airway skills in particular were something the RNs didn't really seem particularly knowledgeable in, and in some cases I saw experienced ER Nurses doing things wrong. I understand its not something that's really taught in RN school, so the ER Nurses basically just learned by watching the docs and RTs. Some of them apparently picked up these things well and some didn't. ICU Nurses were usually a little better sources of info for airway, RSI and ventilator related stuff, but we didn't do a lot of time in the ICU.

I'm not trashing ER Nurses. They have a very tough job, im just not sure they make the greatest Paramedic precepters. That doesn't mean I look down on them. An experienced Paramedic would probably make an even more horrible Nursing school preceptor, but nursing students don't spend any time on an ambulance. They are just very different jobs.

 

[Angel]

eh, i also had a good clinical experience. you get from it what you put in which is #1, and your attitude goes a long way as well. seems this post was created out of a broad generalization, but its obviously not been the case for most of us.
at the end of the day, you need them more than they need you.

 

[hogwiley]

eh, i also had a good clinical experience. you get from it what you put in which is #1, and your attitude goes a long way as well. seems this post was created out of a broad generalization, but its obviously not been the case for most of us.
at the end of the day, you need them more than they need you.

Well its not a question of whether they need me. An RN needs a Nursing student like they need a hangnail, but they still are used as precepters and generally do at least a decent job of teaching them during clinicals.

 

[Angel]

*i think* because theres more they (nursing students can do) you/we cant place foleys, ng tubes, ortho reductions ect. about all we can do is ivs, meds and blood, (splinting ect if the ER tech lets you, where I was that was about all they did) some places will let you intubate but our skill set is fairly limited in the ER. this of course isnt an excuse, but maybe an explaination...

 

[Akulahawk]

*i think* because theres more they (nursing students can do) you/we cant place foleys, ng tubes, ortho reductions ect. about all we can do is ivs, meds and blood, (splinting ect if the ER tech lets you, where I was that was about all they did) some places will let you intubate but our skill set is fairly limited in the ER. this of course isnt an excuse, but maybe an explaination...

When I was doing my ED rotation, there really wasn't a whole lot that I couldn't do, but the point was more skill development and practice rather than work on nursing care because I wasn't a nursing student. So, I got to place foleys, drop NG and OG tubes, start IVs, draw labs, do vitals, interpret EKG's, and so on. As a Nursing student, I did much of the same but thrown in doing med passes, doing assessments & charting them, and the like. I just couldn't do any Code stuff beyond doing compressions.

ER Nurses that haven't been Paramedics or worked in the field in some capacity don't really know a whole lot about field work, so they're not going to really know what the Paramedic Student is going to need. This isn't anywhere near as true for the Nursing Student or New Grad RN as the nurses know what the newbie nurses need to know. It's just that Nurses don't get a whole lot of exposure to field personnel nor do they get much first aid training while in school nor do they have much of an introduction to what the field personnel can do or what they actually know.