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bama_j_ram

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Okay, well yesterday I posted about making emt-b a career and I received mostly negative comments(much appreciated though) . So I wanted to ask about this new EMT-Advanced coming out down here in Alabama in 2010. I'm wondering if maybe you could make a career out of that. And If so, would that still mean riding with a medic for the rest of your days.

Again, thanks for all the feedback,In just the past 2 months I ahave become obsessed with this profession and more I research, the more interested I become. Im already registered for classes this summer and can't wait. Thanks and God Bless, Justin
 
For a career, Paramedic would be the only way to go. The advanced or as many call it now EMT-I does not add enough to be worth while. You will pay almost as much getting the EMT-I as you would getting your Paramedic.
 
Well, if you continue to be obsessed/fascinated with EMS/medicine, then you probably will end up as a paramedic or moving to RN/PA/other medical. There are other posts here about the pro's and cons of advance/EMT-I and whatnot.

While it will be cheaper to get the schooling for EMT-I (~100 hr cirriculum +clinical) compared to EMT-P (~1100 hrs), it may be more worthwhile to spend the extra cash and go paramedic. Please correct me if I'm off base, but EMT-I's primary difference between Basics is that they can start IV's and intubate. In MA, EMT-I's aren't even utilized by most private EMS services, they may make an extra buck, but that's about it.

Food for thought; as the DOT says itself:

Simply stated, the EMT-Intermediate level has as its base the basic EMT program and then has certain proven clinical skills and knowledge to support the skills added to the basic program. The program is not intended necessarily to be a stepping stone to the EMT-Paramedic level. This level does not conflict or compete with the EMT-Paramedic level; it is simply another level that exists as a result of different factors being emphasized.
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Moved to appropriate forum.

Please remember that the Suggestions, Feedback, and Questions forum is for things pertaining to how this site functions, and not general EMS questions.
 
vquintessence said:
While it will be cheaper to get the schooling for EMT-I (~100 hr cirriculum +clinical) compared to EMT-P (~1100 hrs)
Food for thought; as the DOT says itself:
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I cant speak for anyone else but my EMT-I class is around 400 hours curriculum, and I've got about 80 hours clinicals (EC & ambulance). Like I said just me tho.
 
Second said:
I cant speak for anyone else but my EMT-I class is around 400 hours curriculum, and I've got about 80 hours clinicals (EC & ambulance). Like I said just me tho.
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Sounds like your EMT-I course was more like the intro to Paramedic and the actual Paramedic course will be less than most but when combined may exceed others.
 
Well if you want to be a firefighter emt-b as a career would be fine. I am a firefighter in an area that just doesn't get enough fire to keep me content. So now I am a medic and love it, you have to be way more involved in every call, and I still get to fight fire.
 
medic417 said:
Sounds like your EMT-I course was more like the intro to Paramedic and the actual Paramedic course will be less than most but when combined may exceed others.
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The medic schools around here (accredited) the entire first half of medic training is the exact same classes you take for EMT-I. Second semester is the paramedic portion.
 
So, what does the entire paramedic course cost in the States? It's entirely possible the cost could be out of reach for many people who wish to be in EMS. If the pay is so terrible, why put out so much money just to make another $5/hr? I started as an EMT-B in California in 2000. I was, as my instructor put it, "beyond the optimal age demographic" to consider becoming a paramedic in CA. After moving up here, my ex didn't feel my career path was a priority. So, I have lost many years that could heve been spent pursuing a higher level of training. On the other hand, I didn't end up with a "Paragod" mentality which I think is significantly better for my co-workers and the pts I treat. We have a Paragod here who feels he needs to RSI at the first opportunity. It has given him a reputation with our local nursing staff as an egocentric idiot. They have been yelled at by too many Doctors for sending pts that are tubed and didn't require it.
 
At some community colleges it can be attained for less than $2000. Some places charge closer to $20000. Funny some of the better programs are under $3000. So you don't always get more for the money.

There are 2 times people get called Paragod when people get mad at a Paramedic for their education and ability. And second when you have people that should not be allowed to be Paramedics that like to play.
Because of education I get called a Paragod, yet those same people will tell you if their child needs care they want me to be there. They know my patient comes first. I will aggressivly treat and givepatient the best opportunity to reach the hospital with a chance of returning to a normal life.
 
Medic programs aroun dhere cost between $2000 and $2800

No, I think the only time someone gets called a Paragod is when they ACT like their better.


You very well may be the best in the world, and you're allowed to have an ego, but you cannot rub it in someones face.

And the "you" is a very general you, but not YOU personally 417 :P
 
medic417 said:
At some community colleges it can be attained for less than $2000. Some places charge closer to $20000. Funny some of the better programs are under $3000. So you don't always get more for the money.

There are 2 times people get called Paragod when people get mad at a Paramedic for their education and ability. And second when you have people that should not be allowed to be Paramedics that like to play.
Because of education I get called a Paragod, yet those same people will tell you if their child needs care they want me to be there. They know my patient comes first. I will aggressivly treat and givepatient the best opportunity to reach the hospital with a chance of returning to a normal life.
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Let me add a third on forums because things come accross harsher than someone likes you get called Paragod.
 
They called you a paragod? I dont believe it.

Usually that complex goes away rather quickly when you figure out just how little you can actually do for the truley sick pt, at any level.

EMS is nothing if not a very humbling experience.
 
RESQ_5_1 said:
So, what does the entire paramedic course cost in the States?
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The cost per semester credit is still $20 - 22. With both EMT and Paramedic, that might only be 50 semester credit hours. Add another $400 for supplies and it still is not that expensive.

Community college costs average $20 - $100 per credit hour. One can pick up the EMT fairly cheaply at a CC or state votech. An entire Associates degree may only cost $4000 - $10,000. Just a Paramedic cert will be just over half of that at the CC or state votech.

Medic Mills charge between $10,000 to $22,000 with easy, but expensive, loans. Many prefer the quickness of the medic mill instead of spending a whole year in college where they might be expected to take an English or math class or even a real A&P class.


RESQ_5_1 said:
It's entirely possible the cost could be out of reach for many people who wish to be in EMS.
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How did all the others in the many healthcare professions that require much more education including college degrees achieve they goals? They may only have been working as CNAs, equipment techs, hospital aides in various departments or bartending.

CNAs know that a BSN is now what might be expected of them so they make their sacrifices. A Paramedic cert in the U.S. costs no where near what a BSN costs. And, those professionals that have advanced their education levels for themselvs and their profession have been rewarded. They know they will be judged by their weakest link.

Even though a Paramedic with an Associates degree may not see any benefit from their current employer, it doesn't mean they can not put that education to good use later. They may want or be forced to change to another job inside a hospital or office. They might even want to do research. They may also want credibility when applying for a Flight or Specialty team. Do you know why RNs are in charge of many Flight programs? They come with the education. Paramedics can also rise to the top if they can demonstrate ability as well as having the right resume.
 
Actually, there is only ONE time I use the term Paragod. And, that is to describe a paramedic whose ego is beyond measure. You strike me as a Paragod. Someone who is more interested in showing how much more prepared and educated they are than the levels below them instead of trying to help those levels become more adept at their level. And, possibly in the future, becoming a paramedic themselves. I know many paramedics. I know few Paragods. If you are going to extol on the virtues of your training and education, then you should also stand up in the leadership role that comes with that position.

The one thing I find interesting on this site is; none of the people on here (regardless of their level of training) are below average. Everyone was top of their class, the favorite of their preceptors, the one that helped everyone else in class because they were so much better at understanding the material, etc.

As far as the OP question, We do fine up here with BLS assesments. However, in LA county, when I worked there, everyone got an initial ALS response which was then either treated as ALS or downgraded to BLS by them. And treated and transported accordingly. And, I feel that's the way it should work. Initial ALS and then have them determine the final transport/treatment level. I personally feel that EMT-Bs should not work ambulance. The minimum, should be EMT-I. However, I feel that before an EMT-B can go to paramedic school, they should work 911 for a minimum of 6 months. The education should be tiered with each successive level building on the one before it. Pretty much the same as you need a Bachelor's to gain a Master's to gain a Doctorare.
 
Why is it in EMS people think you need to stop and work at a lower level then move up? Doctors become doctors then work. RN's become RN's then work. Yes some will start off as an aid or LVN but they ae not required to. You can get your basic experience as well as advanced during clinicals and third rides.

But for OP most places do not pay enough even at Paramedic level to make a living. Slowly we are seeing at Paramedic evel higher wages. In fact Paramedics at my service make more than the RN's at the local hospital. Sad when you consider they have more education than we do. But they are also some of the lowest paid RN's in the nation.
 
Vent,

As far as the training being out of reach, if people are already working full time elsewhere, and receiving limited funds, it would apparently be more beneficial to attend something other than the Medic mills. I have heard of single moms that work crazy hours and study at night to receive a degree. But, they are gaining a substantial pay raise upon completion and landing a job using that degree.

Paramedic school up here will run you around $20,000 not counting materials and lost wages during the training. I would love to get my Paramedic. Financially, it's not possible at this time. I'm not young, and I have bills to pay. However, due to yourself and Rid's persuasion, I am looking into an A&P class as well as a pharmacology course.

If it was as easy as taking courses over a few years at a community college, that would be great. It doesn't work like that up here. Plus, there are the required 2 ambulance practicums and hospital rotation. And, once that is done, there is the $500 test registration fee and the $450 or so fee to be registered as a Paramedic every year.
 
Lay off the calling people names.
 
medic417 said:
Why is it in EMS people think you need to stop and work at a lower level then move up? Doctors become doctors then work. RN's become RN's then work. Yes some will start off as an aid or LVN but they ae not required to. You can get your basic experience as well as advanced during clinicals and third rides.
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It wasn't too long ago, barbers performed surgery. Thus, the origin of the striped barber pole. Doctors, even after graduation, do internships fellowships, etc before they are given full privelages at a hospital. But, our training isn't antwhere near the same. EMS is still evolving, and eventually, somone will figure out that the best scenario is at the minimum an Associates in paraedicine for everyone going into EMS. Make it one level; Paramedic. And, have it standardized over the entire nation. Although I'm sure there are some minor differences, a Doctor in Arizona can easily become a Doctor in Maine without having to undergo further training.

As the system works now though, Tiered training would better benefit everyone in my opinion. Until a DEGREE is required to do the job.
 
RESQ_5_1 said:
Vent,

As far as the training being out of reach, if people are already working full time elsewhere, and receiving limited funds, it would apparently be more beneficial to attend something other than the Medic mills. I have heard of single moms that work crazy hours and study at night to receive a degree. But, they are gaining a substantial pay raise upon completion and landing a job using that degree.

Paramedic school up here will run you around $20,000 not counting materials and lost wages during the training. I would love to get my Paramedic. Financially, it's not possible at this time. I'm not young, and I have bills to pay. However, due to yourself and Rid's persuasion, I am looking into an A&P class as well as a pharmacology course.

If it was as easy as taking courses over a few years at a community college, that would be great. It doesn't work like that up here. Plus, there are the required 2 ambulance practicums and hospital rotation. And, once that is done, there is the $500 test registration fee and the $450 or so fee to be registered as a Paramedic every year.
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A few years? We are discussing the U.S. system where the Paramedic cert can be done in as little as 3 months. The Canadian system may take 3 years.

There are many professions that require a Masters degree yet pay little. Teachers and social workers are two that come to mind. It is their choice to do something they care about. People have options to make a choice for THEMSELVES. However, they should not make their lower stanards the level of care for PATIENTS. Medicine is progressive and to keep the same 110 hour class for EMT-B the past 40 years without any forward thinking is just a big shame.

Please do move forward with your education. I don't believe you will regret the sacrifices.
 
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