EMT-B to EMT-P... A Bad Idea?

[ResTech]

Experience as an EMT provides a foundation to build upon. Obviously you guys experience as an EMT is different than what is achieved where I'm from.

 

[kecpercussion]

Sorry, driving a van with pretty lights, pushing a gurney, and hooking up a monitor does not prepare you to learn anatomy and physiology, pathology, and the field diagnosis and management of emergencies. College level education and a proper paramedic program do. Field experience as an EMT is certainly not needed or even desirable in the making of a good paramedic.

I say restrict the EMT to first response and non transport so we do away with this debate altogether. The only BLS education you need before a Paramedic program is a AHA BLS for the healthcare provider class.

This is dumb. I can't even argue with it

 

[fortsmithman]

So, remind me, why don't RNs have to be CNAs or LVNs first? Why don't MD/DOs have to be PAs first? Why don't PhDs have to get a masters degree first? Why don't DMDs have to be dental hygenists first?

In order to get a doctorate with exception of MD you do have to have a masters, and to get a master you need a bachelors. That is how it works here in Canada.

 

[Sasha]

The exposure and experience I am speaking of is different than the "learning" mode and what is achieved as a student. As a student with no experience, when your on the Paramedic Unit for the first time, your in a whole 'nother world that you never visited before.

As an EMT with experience, you know what its like to apply cricoid pressure to assist with an intubation, to work a code, insert airways, see the intubations and other advanced modalities, see how they affect patients, get feedback from Paramedics on the call, learn how to operate the monitor and do so on a frequent basis, apply 12-leads, take hundreds of hours of continuing education over the years, run several hundred calls or so a year as a 911 provider, be the lead provider, hone your patient assessment skills, learn lung sounds, learn how to manage an incident scene, learn how to operate within an EMS system... the list goes on and on.

While the above seems like minor things.... it is an accumulative effect that better prepares one for more advanced learning. Im not saying in the absence of.... one cannot succeed, Im just saying it makes it easier.

I learned all of that during my EMT and paramedic clinical ride times.

 

[daedalus]

This is dumb. I can't even argue with it

A straw man statement is not an acceptable response to a valid argument.

 

[ResTech]

Doing a skill or performing something a few times during clinicals is different than doing it hundreds of times over and over and over. Were you taking EMS command and controlling an incident scene during your clinicals? Were you running the code and making patient care decisions without a fallback during your clinicals? No to all the above.

Run for a few years on a 911 BLS truck with 2 EMT's and your learning curve is greatly different.

 

[kecpercussion]

Haha I know. EMTs gain way more experience than just driving and gurney pushing. You should know that. Just because they can't do so many skills doesn't mean they don't learn them

 

[Sasha]

Doing a skill or performing something a few times during clinicals is different than doing it hundreds of times over and over and over. Were you taking EMS command and controlling an incident scene during your clinicals? Were you running the code and making patient care decisions without a fallback during your clinicals? No to all the above.

Run for a few years on a 911 BLS truck with 2 EMT's and your learning curve is greatly different.

While I had a "fall back" as in someone who wasn't going to let me kill the patient, I also had preceptors who allowed me to lead the call and run the scene, etc. I ran some codes, too. Pity you don't!

Run a 911 BLS truck?? And what will you learn? How to apply oxygen, take a blood pressure and give glucose?

 

[daedalus]

How can one criticize the preceptor-intern relationship? This shows a lack of knowledge in medical education. Medical Doctors are supervised by a preceptor for 8 years of their training. 4 years of medical school, and than 4 years of residency supervised by upper level residents and attendings. Nurses are always precepted in school, and then even a few months into their initial employment by a senior nurse.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

A straw man statement is not an acceptable response to a valid argument.

His statement was not a strawman. A strawman is a deliberate misrepresentation of your opponent's position that is easy to defeat that you create because you can't defeat their real one.

"You just hate EMTs!" would be an example of a strawman he might use.

His response would actually be an appeal to ridicule, an informal fallacy and a type of appeal to emotion, where he presents or responds to your argument in a way to make it seem ridiculous without actually offering a counter argument.

All that being said, you're still right about the original topic and he's still wrong.

 

[ResTech]

I also had preceptors who allowed me to lead the call and run the scene, etc. I ran some codes, too. Pity you don't!

Ever since I began Paramedic clinicals I have been running every call we had! Because my preceptors could tell the experience level and I wasnt just some new EMS student and that I have been in the field for some time.

Run a 911 BLS truck?? And what will you learn? How to apply oxygen, take a blood pressure and give glucose?

This shows your ignorance a bit. You still perform a GOOD patient assessment... make transport decisions, call for air medical, and make treatment decisions on your own. Its called developing a process and systematic approach to handling patient conditions and situations.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Run a 911 BLS truck?? And what will you learn? How to apply oxygen, take a blood pressure and give glucose?

AND how to drive an ambulance and hand things to the paramedic!

 

[ResTech]

How can one criticize the preceptor-intern relationship?

No one is criticizing preceptors. Its much different to be in the field by yourself rather than have a preceptor standing over your shoulder guiding you. That's the point.

 

[Sasha]

Ever since I began Paramedic clinicals I have been running every call we had! Because my preceptors could tell the experience level and I wasnt just some new EMS student and that I have been in the field for some time.



This shows your ignorance a bit. You still perform a GOOD patient assessment... make transport decisions, call for air medical, and make treatment decisions on your own. Its called developing a process and systematic approach or handling patient conditions and situations.

Which can be done in school. It does not take years of BLS work to master those skills.

 

[ResTech]

Ok... so Paramedic students who cant even do a trauma assessment obviously could use some additional BLS experience!

 

[daedalus]

Which can be done in school. It does not take years of BLS work to master those skills.

Add to that, an EMT cannot do a good assessment. They simply do not know enough to do so.

 

[Sasha]

Ok... so Paramedic students who cant even do a trauma assessment obviously could use some additional BLS experience!

Or a better instructor perhaps?

 

[Shishkabob]

Add to that, an EMT cannot do a good assessment. They simply do not know enough to do so.

QUIT MAKING BLANKET STATEMENTS.







Work as an EMT while going to medic school, be it 6 months, 1 year, or 2 years. Everyone wins

 

[ResTech]

What is up this you guys thinking an EMT is stuck only with what they learned in their initial program???? Were you guys the ones who never went above and beyond?

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Ok... so Paramedic students who cant even do a trauma assessment obviously could use some additional BLS experience!

Or enrollment in a decent paramedic school.