EMS Unions in So cal

[SkiMaskWay]

What do you guys know about unionization here in LA Area it seems that it would be beneficial if the right union would proliferate industry wide...kinda like the Plumbers, Electricians Pipefitters etc. Those guys have Amazing wages and fringe benefits . What make this Industry so different. Also can anyone tell me their experience with EMS unions. Any info would greatly be appreciated. It seems like every industry has some kinda union.

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

I know AMR Riv Co unionized and from the guys I've talked to there it's actually been a step down, particularly compared to their non union division in San Bern.
Then again, AMR Ventura is under a completely different union and has the best pay across the board for private ambulances in a several hundred mile radius, low turnover, great equipment, and a stellar interagency relationship.
It can work, it can go bad, but I don't see anything comparable to the IAFF coming thru in my lifetime.

 

[MrJones]

My experience with a major union was that it did nothing for me beyond taking a percentage of my paycheck every 2 weeks. But, boy, did the Union President drive a nice car.

Now the presence of a union would be enough to prevent me from applying with an ambulance service. I'm a medical professional, not a plumber, electrician or pipe-fitter. Or any other trade, for that matter.

 

[SkiMaskWay]

My experience with a major union was that it did nothing for me beyond taking a percentage of my paycheck every 2 weeks. But, boy, did the Union President drive a nice car.

Now the presence of a union would be enough to prevent me from applying with an ambulance service. I'm a medical professional, not a plumber, electrician or pipe-fitter. Or any other trade, for that matter.

Right a medical professional! Not a Plumber, Electrician or pipe fitter? Its funny how the unionized Tradesman make around 40 dollars an hour... In fact first year apprentice with absolutely no training or skills makes About 22 hour ....not to mention Fringe benefits and Pension... Also firemen nurses and Cops are unionized. So Mr Medical professional do your wages reflect that?, because I know for damn sure your not a Fireman otherwise you wouldn't be so proud of your medical inclination...
My brother in law is a Plumber his Journeyman wages are 44 an hour plus bennies and pension. My old EMT partner is now a Lineman making 56 an hour with IBEW ....besides Medical professionals don't make crappy wages bro

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

We don't make low wages because of the lack of a union, but because of the overall standing of EMS, particularly in that godforsaken county you hail from. An over saturation of young, eager, qualified applicants willing to do the job for free. A lack of formal training (I went to EMT school for 5 weeks 8 hours a day), and I'll be done with medic school in under a year all together. What's an RN program look like next to that? Is there really such an over saturation of Plumbers that it drives down wages? I'd love to lay pipe for a living, just not like that.
On a different note, if you got into EMS to make 70k starting with a stellar pension and benefits, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the lack of patients actually found on fire. You can absolutely make a survivable living, particularly out of LA County, and there's even places with salaries equal or comparable to FD, but this is not the place to make yourself rich.

 

[MrJones]

Right a medical professional! Not a Plumber, Electrician or pipe fitter? Its funny how the unionized Tradesman make around 40 dollars an hour... In fact first year apprentice with absolutely no training or skills makes About 22 hour ....not to mention Fringe benefits and Pension... Also firemen nurses and Cops are unionized. So Mr Medical professional do your wages reflect that?, because I know for damn sure your not a Fireman otherwise you wouldn't be so proud of your medical inclination...
My brother in law is a Plumber his Journeyman wages are 44 an hour plus bennies and pension. My old EMT partner is now a Lineman making 56 an hour with IBEW ....besides Medical professionals don't make crappy wages bro

Sounds to me like you picked the wrong profession.

Bro.

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

Whoa dude, who you callin bro?!?
I'm a medical professional, I took a 160hr class, and I demand respect!

300 hours for a police academy
600 hours for a Fire academy
1200 hours for a medic program
And nursing programs are too classy to measure class in hours.
If you want higher wages, broader scope, more respect, and a better job outlook, further your education or find a new career.

 

[SkiMaskWay]

Whoa dude, who you callin bro?!?
I'm a medical professional, I took a 160hr class, and I demand respect!

300 hours for a police academy
600 hours for a Fire academy
1200 hours for a medic program
And nursing programs are too classy to measure class in hours.
If you want higher wages, broader scope, more respect, and a better job outlook, further your education or find a new career.

Once again were going around in circles... I understand your point but excepting poor wages working, conditions and crappy treatment is unexceptable. Regardless of the industry. Attitude such as yours breeds this type of conditions. And is exactly what these shady transport companies want. In fact I want to start my own ambulance company so I could pay minimum wage and exploit my medical professionals that think that how its supposed to be until land a Fire job

 

[SkiMaskWay]

Sounds to me like you picked the wrong profession.

Bro.

Why? You picked the right one? Tell me about your profession...

 

[SkiMaskWay]

We don't make low wages because of the lack of a union, but because of the overall standing of EMS, particularly in that godforsaken county you hail from. An over saturation of young, eager, qualified applicants willing to do the job for free. A lack of formal training (I went to EMT school for 5 weeks 8 hours a day), and I'll be done with medic school in under a year all together. What's an RN program look like next to that? Is there really such an over saturation of Plumbers that it drives down wages? I'd love to lay pipe for a living, just not like that.
On a different note, if you got into EMS to make 70k starting with a stellar pension and benefits, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the lack of patients actually found on fire. You can absolutely make a survivable living, particularly out of LA County, and there's even places with salaries equal or comparable to FD, but this is not the place to make yourself rich.

Other industries don't necessarily have a shortage or years of schooling yet manage to have descent pay and bennies. I know plumbing isn't very glamorous but neither is pushing a gurney after medic school, Specially for minimum wage. But your right young EMTs willing to work for peanuts drive down the wages ....kinda like illegals that don't demand good wages or bennies...in fact illegals have it better they don't have to pay taxes or bs certs

 

[SkiMaskWay]

Other industries don't necessarily have a shortage or years of schooling yet manage to have descent pay and bennies. I know plumbing isn't very glamorous but neither is pushing a gurney after medic school, Specially for minimum wage. But your right young EMTs willing to work for peanuts drive down the wages ....kinda like illegals that don't demand good wages or bennies...in fact illegals have it better they don't have to pay taxes or bs certs

In fact there is an over saturation for most of the trades including Plumbers go to any union hall and look at the waiting list see how many guys they have in the books waiting for a spot to be dispatched there is absolutely no shortage....

 

[DrParasite]

Now the presence of a union would be enough to prevent me from applying with an ambulance service. I'm a medical professional, not a plumber, electrician or pipe-fitter. Or any other trade, for that matter.

yeah, i can't think of any medical professional that belong to a union. I mean, other than NURSES.

In EMS, you are paid what you are felt like you are worth. If management thinks of you as replaceable, you will be paid poorly. if people are willing to do the job for free in your area, they will pay you poorly. if people are willing to do the job for free elsewhere, well, that's not here, so it shouldn't factor into wages (and any decent negotiator would say that, but we often don't have good negotiators doing the negotiations), and remember, if you get a good salary, good benefits, and a retirement plan, the city can just lay you all off and replace you with a private for profit entity whose people are willing to work for $9 an hour. If beware of making a good living, because you run the risk of being outsourced to a cheaper provider.

 

[epipusher]

I don't think plumbers and linesman bill the same as EMS. That may have something to do with our low pay as well.

 

[DieselBolus]

. I know plumbing isn't very glamorous but neither is pushing a gurney after medic school

I can see past the lack of communication skills, but.....wtf?

I have never met a medic who felt pushing a gurney was below them. Even flight medics who scored jobs with 500 applicants for a single opening. I have also never met a medic who failed to understand that the tools we have for moving people around are central in PREhospital care.

I suppose that could be hard to understand if you got into EMS to run around intubating patients and letting other people deal with the paltry transportation to definitive care.

 

[SkiMaskWay]

I don't think plumbers and linesman bill the same as EMS. That may have something to do with our low pay as well.

I'm sure contractors make a killing on construction projects, but I'm sure the private ambulances also have a high profit margin...otherwise there wouldn't be so many Ambulance companies popping up in LA. There is so many of them its really big business. They have deep pockets but like another poster stated there is so many EMTs willing to work for bread crumbs. Like the the saying goes stand up for what you deserve or take what they give you. Look at the grocery store employees a few years back they went on strike demanding more pay and bennies despite the fact they have little education.

 

[gonefishing]

I'm sure contractors make a killing on construction projects, but I'm sure the private ambulances also have a high profit margin...otherwise there wouldn't be so many Ambulance companies popping up in LA. There is so many of them its really big business. They have deep pockets but like another poster stated there is so many EMTs willing to work for bread crumbs. Like the the saying goes stand up for what you deserve or take what they give you. Look at the grocery store employees a few years back they went on strike demanding more pay and bennies despite the fact they have little education.

Listen, from experience with an ems union, it still goes in circles. Nothing happens over night. It can be a tug of war for years. The reason why there are so many ambulance companys is alot of the owners wanna make a quick buck and pass on the little guy and alot do it the fraudulent way while others are honest but could give two cents about you. What a union does is establishes a contract so there are no changes over night it has to be a voted issue. Its fair but alot of owners see it as you cutting Into the profit or trying to tell them how to run the company. Its been ATTEMPTED to bring in a large union for ems into L.A. failed by a small percentage and was mainly due to the people themselves not giving a damn because its all a "stepping stone" to a fire job or nurses job and my argument to that is why not have a union now and after your primary ems job? As a business owner on the side of my ems job to make ends meat, I would welcome a union. A proud happy well funded worker only helps you grow.

 

[SkiMaskWay]

Listen, from experience with an ems union, it still goes in circles. Nothing happens over night. It can be a tug of war for years. The reason why there are so many ambulance companys is alot of the owners wanna make a quick buck and pass on the little guy and alot do it the fraudulent way while others are honest but could give two cents about you. What a union does is establishes a contract so there are no changes over night it has to be a voted issue. Its fair but alot of owners see it as you cutting Into the profit or trying to tell them how to run the company. Its been ATTEMPTED to bring in a large union for ems into L.A. failed by a small percentage and was mainly due to the people themselves not giving a damn because its all a "stepping stone" to a fire job or nurses job and my argument to that is why not have a union now and after your primary ems job? As a business owner on the side of my ems job to make ends meat, I would welcome a union. A proud happy well funded worker only helps you grow.

Your absolutely right....

 

[SkiMaskWay]

Your absolutely right....

Its time for a change

 

[MrJones]

I'm curious as to whether any of those who have expressed the desire to unionize have ever been a dues-paying union member, EMS or otherwise. And please, no need for any long-winded responses; it's a simple yes or no question.

 

[gonefishing]

I'm curious as to whether any of those who have expressed the desire to unionize have ever been a dues-paying union member, EMS or otherwise. And please, no need for any long-winded responses; it's a simple yes or no question.

Yes.