EMS Only For FD... Thoughts? Crew Acceptance...

[Trvlr]

So backstory, I worked as an EMT for the local FD working large events, and mass gatherings (non-transport.) for just shy of a year. In order to even work part-time on an ambulance they require Fire Certs.

I do not have Fire Certs., and at first did the FD job to maintain EMT Cert, and some experience as I plan to go LEO.

Due to high turn over in their part-time program they removed the Fire Cert. requirement to EMS only to work on the box. Reading the memo from the Chief, it seems the full time crews looked down on the part time FF/EMTs' and doing exit interviews many stated they didn't feel welcome.

Well, I applied for the new position, and got the job. I'm sure these concerns are premature, I also know being the FNG is going to happen, (extra chores, etc.) My main concern is, if the full time FF's looked down on the guys WITH fire certs, what are they going to do to the EMS only?

Does anyone else work somewhere with a similar model, is their tension within your department, or suggestions to make this go smoothly?

 

[Summit]

Aaaand here we go...

If you get crapped on, tell em that hazing is for FFs and you are doing your part by running the box so they don't have to. I'm just sure that will work!

 

[EpiEMS]

Reading the memo from the Chief, it seems the full time crews looked down on the part time FF/EMTs' and doing exit interviews many stated they didn't feel welcome.

Sounds like management is actually aware of the problem. Hopefully they are actively addressing it...

 

[PotatoMedic]

Aaaand here we go...

If you get crapped on, tell em that hazing is for FFs and you are doing your part by running the box so they don't have to. I'm just sure that will work!

Honestly if I ever picked up a volunteer EMS gig in a combination department and was getting hazed and harassed for being EMS only/a volunteer. I'm at the point in my life I would tell them that I can quit and they can run the box.

Do I think it would do much to change their attitude, no. But I think when they saw me quit or stop showing up regularly and they were stuck on the box they would realize I was serious.

Now to note, I'm willing to play the game and it can take some time to get to know people and mild teasing is part of the process. But if the attitude is truly demeaning I don't let that slide.

 

[Bullets]

suggestions to make this go smoothly?

Park the rig in front of the hydrant on every fire call

 

[ITBITB13]

Or put in their heads the idea that EMS and Fire be totally separate.

Fire only wants EMS attached to them because of the $$$ it brings to the department.

It’s usually a sore subject for them because they know what they stand to lose if EMS goes private/non fire based.

Take the LACoFD for example...

 

[srcoen]

I wondered the same thing when I first started, and was told the FD is really an EMS-based FD that puts out a Fire once in awhile... don’t worry about fitting in... they all put their pants on one leg at a time just like us EMTs. This is a department right in the middle of the Oklahoma Panhandle. All of the FFs are also at the least Basic, if not Medic. Long story short, if your department gives you grief, they might want to look at their culture... EMS and Fire are a strong brotherhood, and grief violates that brotherhood.

 

[ITBITB13]

Anyone here work for New Orleans EMS? I feel they’re a perfect example of what a Non-Fire EMS Program is like.

 

[DrParasite]

Anyone here work for New Orleans EMS? I feel they’re a perfect example of what a Non-Fire EMS Program is like.

No but I have seen Nightwatch.......

Due to high turn over in their part-time program they removed the Fire Cert. requirement to EMS only to work on the box. Reading the memo from the Chief, it seems the full time crews looked down on the part time FF/EMTs' and doing exit interviews many stated they didn't feel welcome.

Sounds like a department I used to work at. the full time FFs were on the engine, and one FF/EMT was paired with a part timer on the ambulance. and that FF/EMT was usually unhappy about having to be on the ambulance. the Full time FFs are part of the crew, work the same shift day in and day out..... the part timer is just there. the part timer almost always was assigned to clean the bathrooms. and is chronically the low man on the totem pole. But I came to work, did my part, and went home at the end of every shift. and when my other, higher paying, part time job, and it began to have scheduling issues, I left. They have since outsourced the ambulance to a private EMS service.

As long as you do your job, and you don't plan on being there forever, why should you care on if you are looked down on by the full time fire staff?

 

[Trvlr]

Sounds like management is actually aware of the problem. Hopefully they are actively addressing it...

I would assume it was addressed to the crews by the Chief. During our orientation they did tell us to be respectful, and that these guys worked hard to earn their badges. (They hire about 10 people once every two years.) Also not to misrepresent ourselves as FF's as we have the same uniforms, just a different badge on our Class B.

As long as you do your job, and you don't plan on being there forever, why should you care on if you are looked down on by the full time fire staff?

True, but I plan on being here for a while. I'd rather it be a somewhat tolerable experience versus dreading going to the station. Also not many Part-time EMS jobs in my state, not without being Fire too. So just trying to go some where else to maintain my certs would be difficult.


I appreciate everyone's insight, and suggestions.

 

[EpiEMS]

During our orientation they did tell us to be respectful, and that these guys worked hard to earn their badges. (They hire about 10 people once every two years.)

Eh, FFI + FFII isn't that different from EMT from a time commitment perspective

 

[DrParasite]

I was going to let it slide, but since @EpiEMS mentioned it....

During our orientation they did tell us to be respectful, and that these guys worked hard to earn their badges.

does that mean they don't need to be respectful to you, because you guys didn't earn yours? What did they do that was so hard? Should everyone be respectful? based on the exit interviews, it seems like the full timers might not have been very respectful of the part timers in the past.

(They hire about 10 people once every two years.) Also not to misrepresent ourselves as FF's as we have the same uniforms, just a different badge on our Class B.

why do they need to say that? are they they insecure? as long as you don't do something you aren't trained in, why should that even need to be said? just because they are a small department who doesn't hire often doesn't make them special.

I'd rather it be a somewhat tolerable experience versus dreading going to the station. Also not many Part-time EMS jobs in my state, not without being Fire too.

only one way to find out.....

what state is this?

Back in the day, EMT was 120 hours, and Firefighter I was 120 hours. Firefighter II was another 80 or so hours (and was optional). At the fire academy I originally attended, Firefighter I is now 192 hours, and Firefighter II is 120 hours (and is still optional). EMT is now 190.

So while I do commend them for all their hard work, you shouldn't think of them as anything special, especially since your job description doesn't have any fire suppression duties in it. After all, if it did, they would require you to be firefighters too.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think everyone should be respectful of each other, regardless if they are a full time firefighter or not.

 

[Bullets]

Seriously, FF1 and EMT are both equally not hard. I have 16 year olds who breeze through EMT school. The hardest part about FF1 is making sure the recruits dont eat the crayons cause they think it will taste like cherry/grape/blueberry.

 

[DrParasite]

So that's why they didn't give my class any crayons......

or maybe it was this:

 

[Trvlr]

I was going to let it slide, but since @EpiEMS mentioned it....
does that mean they don't need to be respectful to you, because you guys didn't earn yours? What did they do that was so hard? Should everyone be respectful? just because they are a small department who doesn't hire often doesn't make them special.only one way to find out.....

So while I do commend them for all their hard work, you shouldn't think of them as anything special, especially since your job description doesn't have any fire suppression duties in it. After all, if it did, they would require you to be firefighters too.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think everyone should be respectful of each other, regardless if they are a full time firefighter or not.

Like I said, this is probably premature... I'm just a perpetual pessimist.

It's actually a 600+ employee department, that covers numerous towns and cities. That might be part of the problem as well, very hard to manage that many stations and staff. I also think the second leading cause of the Paid Call guys leaving is they went to the Fire Academy to be Fire Fighters, not on the box exclusively. Which is how it was, and with the changes; still is. Even the new hires with Fire Certs will not be issued turn-outs.

Seriously, FF1 and EMT are both equally not hard. I have 16 year olds who breeze through EMT school. The hardest part about FF1 is making sure the recruits dont eat the crayons cause they think it will taste like cherry/grape/blueberry.

Haha, glad to see some humor in the thread.

I have a lot of respect for the Fire guys, as I did my EMT through the dept, and have had the opportunity to work with a ton of great crews. I guess at this point I'm along for the ride. I am excited for the new opportunity, and to see where this goes.

 

[DrParasite]

One thing to keep in mind with the old system, especially if they were a union shop: it was in their interest to have as few part timers as possible, because it helped justify the union's need for more full time union members. If they run off all the paid call people, well then the city will need to either pay OT or hire another FT person both of which help the union membership. Not saying that it's the right thing to do, but I've seen it happen before.

As an aside: requiring certifications for a job that have nothing to do with the job functions is pretty stupid. It would be like requiring ACLS, PALS, and a law enforcement or security certification in order to ride on a BLS truck. A complete waste of everyone's time.

 

[mgr22]

PotatoMedic basically said what I was thinking. It's interesting how much simpler some issues seem as you get older. I don't mind kidding around, or even offering to do stuff on the job no one else wants to, but I wouldn't tolerate ongoing bad behavior for the specific purpose of making me feel inferior. I pretty much go along with that line from "The Shootist": "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid-a-hand-on. I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."