EMS and Motorcycle accidents

[CANDawg]

I ride a sportbike. I don't ride like an idiot. I ride with friends who ride on sportbikes, and they don't do it either. If we have someone join our group and they try that, we don't ride with them. There are sportbike groups in the DFW area who do the same thing.

My goal wasn't to imply that all sport bike owners are like that, but I do still think that there is a high percentage of people that choose sport bikes specifically so they can experience the 'thrill' of taking chances on the road.

If you purchase a bike because of its "high performance", "quick turns", and "quick stopping", you're likely going to want to use those features. I think there's just an unfortunate number of riders that think the appropriate place to do that is in the middle of a busy freeway, rather than somewhere a bit more purpose-built. (Same could be said for owners of sports cars, by the way. Why do you think insurance is way more for a $50,000 sports car than a high end $50,000 minivan?)

Ultimately, I think that it motorcycling licensing should include a mandatory review of the increased dangers. Plain and simple, you're not as safe on a motorcycle as you are in a car. Perhaps a few photos of some severe trauma caused by bike accidents would spur some people to protect themselves by thinking a bit more about how they drive.

 

[Shishkabob]

If you purchase a bike because of its "high performance", "quick turns", and "quick stopping"

So why don't you drive a semi? It's safer than a car, isn't it?

you're likely going to want to use those features.

You can use those feature, even on a public road, and still ride safely and legally.


If someone drives a 2-door coupe car, do you automatically think they are a speedfreak street racer who swerves in and out of traffic? Because that's how you're labeling sportbike riders just because of what they ride.


I find this kind of bike sexy. I love how it looks. I don't want to buy a bike that I think is ugly. It just so happens that it's a "crotch rocket" but that doesn't mean I will ride all the way to work doing a wheelie.

 

[CANDawg]

I find this kind of bike sexy. I love how it looks. I don't want to buy a bike that I think is ugly. It just so happens that it's a "crotch rocket" but that doesn't mean I will ride all the way to work doing a wheelie.

I agree. I'm just trying to walk the fine line between not labelling ALL sports bike owners as 'speed crazed freakshows', while still pointing out that those who DO want to drive irrationally will be significantly more likely to purchase a sports bike than a harley.

 

[workworkwork]

I remember seeing a 60 minutes thing once, or some evening news special where they did a feature on different companies trying to implement airbags in motorcycles. It looked more like a horrific circus show instead, where dummies were being catapulted away.

I'm hoping they'll improve on this, as below looks more promising:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPUFWJpKsU

 

[Tigger]

I'm talking about when I get the call. When I'm sitting in my ambulance and they radio there's MVA with a motorcycle the FIRST ORGANIC THOUGHT is c spine and longboard. When you get to the scene that can all change, but those are the two pieces of equipment I would think about using first ON THE WAY to the call.

As for gear while riding, I guess I've seen way to many people cruising around without anything. There are parts of Boston and south of Boston that have pretty active motorcycle gangs and just morons with pants down to their knees going 80mph shirtless. Theres a town called mattapan everyone calls murderpan, just sayin.

I guess I've never really bothered with the whole first though beyond how the heck do I get to said location. But maybe that's just me.

Also I don't quite get the point about southie and mattapan (which is a neighborhood, not a town) and motorcycles. The majority of murders in mattapan have nothing to do with motorcycles or the gangs that sometimes ride them. I'd also bet that there are comparatively few motorcycle accidents in these neighborhoods considering the socioeconomic status of their residents and the fact that few non-residents who are not in ambulances (like me oops) tend to steer clear of these areas.

Anyway back to the regularly scheduled thread.

 

[workworkwork]

I guess I've never really bothered with the whole first though beyond how the heck do I get to said location. But maybe that's just me.

Also I don't quite get the point about southie and mattapan (which is a neighborhood, not a town) and motorcycles. The majority of murders in mattapan have nothing to do with motorcycles or the gangs that sometimes ride them. I'd also bet that there are comparatively few motorcycle accidents in these neighborhoods considering the socioeconomic status of their residents and the fact that few non-residents who are not in ambulances (like me oops) tend to steer clear of these areas.

Anyway back to the regularly scheduled thread.

I wasn't saying there are more motorcycle accidents I'm saying the chances are higher and more often than not are associated with more deaths.

As far as murders in mattapan, its a lot of gang violence... Gangs who ride motorcycles..

Thanks for making the neighborhood clarification, that was necessary.

Edit: I don't remember mentioning Southie at all.. I said "south of boston". Southie is being overrun by yuppies lately, for which I've yet to see a motorcycle. Once again, read.

 

[mycrofft]

On scene, look about as you approach the victim. One thing riders have happen which car riders don't (often) is bodily contact with external items like tree limbs, fence wire, mail boxes. I stopped off duty for a guy who hit the heavy steel guy wire running from an anchor in the ground to help stabilize a power pole on a curve. It struck him from anterior right lower ribcage to left shoulder, then struck his chin as he fell backwards while continuing forwards, and went under with the bike. With leathers, you may not see an abrasion and the bruise may take a while to appear, so palpate, auscultate.

 

[Tigger]

My more useful contribution to this thread OP in that many motorcycle MVCs are apt to leave their patients in the middle of the road or in travel lanes. Perhaps emphasizing proper rig positioning, the use of traffic control devices, and wearing those safety vests that everyone always seem to forget might be useful for your presentation. Working in the middle lane of a freeway is bad news bears until lanes can properly be closed...

I wasn't saying there are more motorcycle accidents I'm saying the chances are higher and more often than not are associated with more deaths.

As far as murders in mattapan, its a lot of gang violence... Gangs who ride motorcycles..

Thanks for making the neighborhood clarification, that was necessary.

Edit: I don't remember mentioning Southie at all.. I said "south of boston". Southie is being overrun by yuppies lately, for which I've yet to see a motorcycle. Once again, read.

If you're going to call me out you could at least be accurate. Stop trying to make an argument that doesn't exist. Crappy neighborhoods do not see a statistically significant increase in motorcycle related MVCs, especially in Boston where there is a very insignificant motorcycle gang problem when compared to the rest of the violent crime that takes place in the city's seedy neighborhoods.

I misread south of boston for south boston, sue me. In any case if you're looking for where I suspect the majority of the motorcycle MVCs occur in Massachusetts you would likely find that to be south of Boston on any of the major highways, simply because that's where the majority of high speed highway traffic is.

 

[phideux]

Where I am we have 3 MC rallies a year, pretty big ones, we are in between 2 of them right now. From what I've seen, we just finished Harley week, most of those folks are decked out in their leather, don't drive like idiots, and the majority of the accidents tend to be car vs MC, the majority of the time it is the car that gets a failure to yield ticket. Tomorrow starts "black bike week", these people are mostly on sport bikes, their attire is usually shorts and flip-flops for the guys, short skirts, bikinis, and spandex for the girls. The majority of accidents with this crowd is usually due to speed, showing off and stupidity. This is road rash weekend for us. We had one girl last year that went off the back when her boyfriend popped a wheelie at about 50mph, she road rashed the hell out of her butt, flipped over and ground a nipple off. Ouch.
We are a no helmet state and I've seen both sides of the coin, it appears that a helmet won't do much in a very high speed accident, but in a low speed accident it can mean the difference between no injury with a helmet, to major avulsions, head trauma without one.
As far as the boarding/immobilizing, every wreck is it's own situation, proper patient assessment will dictate treatment.
I also ride, I have a 1975 Harley, a Goldwing, and I'm saving towards a Ducati SS. I always wear a helmet, don't ride like an idiot, and cover as much skin a possible just in case. I've been down once, shredded the back of a leather jacket, and cracked a helmet, I got bruised up, but walked away from it.

 

[nwhitney]

I find this kind of bike sexy. I love how it looks. I don't want to buy a bike that I think is ugly. It just so happens that it's a "crotch rocket" but that doesn't mean I will ride all the way to work doing a wheelie.

From one rider to another I completely agree with you.

That Ninja is a very SEXY bike.

 

[Enginetech88]

I never thought about the roadway/ traffic control issue. Obviously people are much less protected. Thanks everyone for the good input. We got off topic a little bit but everything is helping mold this presentation to be better and better. I greatly appreciate it!!

 

[Flightorbust]

Ok I didnt read the whole thing because it seemed to be getting into a pissing match. But I do have a few points and I will say that I ride a "crotch rocket".

Most of what I saw that linuss posted is correct. You need to get that helmet off. There are a few helmet that the face mask will lift off of but most are solid. If you leave a bike jacket on your patient you need to remember that the jacket has padding and therefore you may need to pad gaps.

Im not aware of what bikes have the lay over kill on it so be ready to turn off using the red button on the right side of the handle bars.

I know personally if you cut off my gear when it didnt need to be I will be mad. Simply by cutting the chin strap you make the helmet unusable. To give you guys an idea of the cost of the gear I ride with limited gear on and I have over $500 worth of gear (Jacket $250 Helmet $200+ Gloves $50) Im not saying dont cut it off. Im saying that only cut it if you need to and try to go for seams.

Just because its a "sport" bike doesnt mean I ride aggressively. Im more comfortable in the riding position of a sport bike then on a cruiser. I also like to take advantage of the canyons around me. So please dont assume that because they are on a sport bike they rode like an idiot.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Deep breath everyone.
Think before you post and lets get back to the original ops question please.

Thanks

 

[Tigger]

I know personally if you cut off my gear when it didnt need to be I will be mad. Simply by cutting the chin strap you make the helmet unusable. To give you guys an idea of the cost of the gear I ride with limited gear on and I have over $500 worth of gear (Jacket $250 Helmet $200+ Gloves $50) Im not saying dont cut it off. Im saying that only cut it if you need to and try to go for seams.

Heck if someone cuts off my favorite tee shirt when it didn't need to happen I'd be pissed. I put myself in a fair bit of pain to help an EMS crew take my ski jacket, it's worth too much to me unless I'm unconscious.

 

[RemoveTheFear]

One thing I have learned from personal experience is that sliding nylon gets hot.

Aggressive application of front brake and newly painted left turn arrow did not mix well. Walked away unscathed except for a nice little burn right where I slid.

Aerostich, the maker of my jacket, suggests wearing a full coverage of cotton under the jacket/pants just for that reason. I, of course, didn't read that tip until after the fact.

 

[Veneficus]

Actually I have found that most motorcycle injuries are from people who do not know how to ride.

Who do not have/wear the proper gear.

Who do absolutely stupipd things like ride between stopped cars or try to "sneak" between a car and the curb to make a turn.

But I also agree, you should assess the patient before you go cutting anything.

This also holds true for the rodeo people.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I'm wondering how a town with a high homicide rate was brought up into this discussion? Talk about outta left field.

Anecdotal but we run more Harley/cruiser type accidents than sport bike accidents. We have a couple very active MCs here although they have been quiet since the shootout during the motorcycle week here last year.

I'm on Linuss' side on this one. Don't label someone by if they ride or what they ride. It's wrong and makes you sound like a total tool but I won't point fingers.

The helmet is coming off as soon as I get another set of hands unless, like someone else said, there's an emergent airway issue.

Someone mentioned it but didn't go farther with it...scene protection by ways of flares and truck positioning is right at the top of things that need to be addressed as soon as you arrive on scene. What's the first thing they monkey trained us all to say? "Scene Safety". Now the trick is to position yourself and other responding units to protect the scene and deflect any impacts away from personnel while still having good access to your truck and loading the patient and having a good route of egress.

 

[Tigger]

I'm wondering how a town with a high homicide rate was brought up into this discussion? Talk about outta left field.

Boston does not even have a high homicide rate, some people just want to pretend that the Departed and The Town are 100% accurate depictions of the city.

Anecdotal but we run more Harley/cruiser type accidents than sport bike accidents. We have a couple very active MCs here although they have been quiet since the shootout during the motorcycle week here last year.

I'm on Linuss' side on this one. Don't label someone by if they ride or what they ride. It's wrong and makes you sound like a total tool but I won't point fingers.

The helmet is coming off as soon as I get another set of hands unless, like someone else said, there's an emergent airway issue.

Someone mentioned it but didn't go farther with it...scene protection by ways of flares and truck positioning is right at the top of things that need to be addressed as soon as you arrive on scene. What's the first thing they monkey trained us all to say? "Scene Safety". Now the trick is to position yourself and other responding units to protect the scene and deflect any impacts away from personnel while still having good access to your truck and loading the patient and having a good route of egress.

While I said that I would remove a helmet alone if there was an emergent airway issues, if you (plural) arrive with a two person crew that helmet should be off in a very short amount of time while maintaining c-spine. Proper helmet removal, if practiced, is not that difficult of a skill. A proper assessment is impossible with the helmet on anyway, so getting it off should probably the first patient centered priority.

As to expand on the scene safety issue, many ambulances are not going to have traffic control devices available. Given this, block as much of the scene as possible with the ambulance if you are the first arriving unit and get on the horn for some help. If there are other units on scene it would be preferable to pull ahead of the scene so that you have some protection while loading the patient. I know I already said it but where the damn safety vest too. I always hear people say "if they don't see the shiny ambulance with the flashy lights how will they see my vest?" I hate that answer. You'll never know if the vest saved you from getting hit because, you know, you didn't actually get hit! Do you think the driver is really going to pull over after a near miss and explain how he almost nailed you?!?!?! No, so wear the thing.

 

[Bullets]

We have been seeing an increase in motorcycle riders and accidents...if this is sure to the decreased cost of fuel and insurance or the rise of motorcycles I dont know. However I have cut of gear, and I will do it again, despite the protestations of the riders. If I need to visualize an area due to a complaint of pain, I will cut, does not matter if its jeans or crash pants.

Ultimatley the hospital is going to cut the clothes of the minute they hit the table, and they don't care about cost of clothing

Our trauma criteria is pretty progressive, but most accidents involving a motorbike fulfill at least one of them. The trauma docs are quick with the scissors, and they have made it public knowledge they want trauma naked if you are bringing them a patient

 

[Veneficus]

We have been seeing an increase in motorcycle riders and accidents...if this is sure to the decreased cost of fuel and insurance or the rise of motorcycles I dont know. However I have cut of gear, and I will do it again, despite the protestations of the riders. If I need to visualize an area due to a complaint of pain, I will cut, does not matter if its jeans or crash pants.

Ultimatley the hospital is going to cut the clothes of the minute they hit the table, and they don't care about cost of clothing

Our trauma criteria is pretty progressive, but most accidents involving a motorbike fulfill at least one of them. The trauma docs are quick with the scissors, and they have made it public knowledge they want trauma naked if you are bringing them a patient

Sounds like more of an ego thing than actually a medical need.

The purpose of medicine is to help people, not to cost them money without benefit or need.

For the actual riders out there could I ask a question?

If you crash your bike can you claim your safety gear on insurance as part of the loss?