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http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=38495 .... see this link, thread already been created. I request we close and/or move.
Ellenville EMT breaks rules to help 4-year-old
- Thread starter MMiz
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OP
OP
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Threads merged. Thanks!
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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He broke the rules, he deserves to be disciplined. is it a stupid rule, sure, but it is the agency's rule. I know of several ambulance companies that didn't allow people under 21 to be drivers. stupid rule, yes, the those are the rules. And we both know your former employer had some stupid rules that you were still expected to follow, regardless of who stupid they were.
I understand everything worked out (this time). next time, where a 17 year old takes the ambulance, because there is no driver available, should that be allowed? what if he crashes? what if he gets lost? what if he can't back into the ER? if he does crash, how do you show the documented training he received? how may 0s can you write on the check? What if there is no medic available, maybe he should take the truck solo, and find a random person to drive the ambulance, to get the sick kid to the ER? You can't excuse his actions because there was a positive outcome.
He needs to grow up & be an adult; he broke the rules, he deals with the consequences. I would have done the same thing if I was in his place, but I would have served my time for my crime because I knowingly broke the rules.
I understand everything worked out (this time). next time, where a 17 year old takes the ambulance, because there is no driver available, should that be allowed? what if he crashes? what if he gets lost? what if he can't back into the ER? if he does crash, how do you show the documented training he received? how may 0s can you write on the check? What if there is no medic available, maybe he should take the truck solo, and find a random person to drive the ambulance, to get the sick kid to the ER? You can't excuse his actions because there was a positive outcome.
He needs to grow up & be an adult; he broke the rules, he deals with the consequences. I would have done the same thing if I was in his place, but I would have served my time for my crime because I knowingly broke the rules.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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and just posting my response to comments that were made about this topic on my FB page by several career firefighters, EMTs, supervisors, and paramedics....
Just reviewing what is on my page (not even taking into account what others have said on other FB pages):
1) there are dumb rules. There are also rules from management (volunteer or career). There are many that I don't agree with, and many on here don't agree with either. HOWEVER, they are still the rules of the agency. They exist for a reason, and that reason might be as simple as "60 years ago, we thought this would be a good idea, and it's worked for us for 60 years." Don't like them? don't be part of the agency. or become a supervisor, and change the rules. I know where i work, and have worked, there were rules. and if I wanted to continue to maintain my employment, I am expected to follow the rules. If I want to break the rules, I should probably have supervisory approval first.
2) Many have said "well, he saved the life, it needed to be done, it all worked out, no harm no foul." The ends DO NOT justify the means. This time nothing bad happened.. what about next time? We all remember what happened to the paramedics who performed the field C-section. it needed to get done, a life needed to be saved. what happened to them?
3) He broke the rules, and discipline needed to be taken. Otherwise the response of "well I needed to get the ambulance out the door" because a valid reason to break any rules. Is 60 days excessive? I think so, but it wasn't my call. Removal from the Junior Advisor position? he's 20; how much experience does he really have? Probably appropriate. communications committee? who cares. These has to be a consequence for his actions
4) This is a private, internal disciplinary action that should have never made the news. The agency can't say why exactly he was suspended (privacy laws and all), but he can play the hero to the media. Not only that, but now the agency CAN'T change their actions; doing so would be a clear sign of poor management, because they are letting the opinions of outsiders change how they operate. I am sure the public loves him right now... after all, he saved the day. What if he had crashed, while transporting the sick kid to the hospital. what do you think the public response would have been? Oh, and when I was separated from a former 100% career agency, I wasn't invited to the disciplinary meeting; I wasn't even made aware of it. they said I broke a rule, I wasn't able to give any response, they sent me a letter saying "thank you but your services are no longer needed, turn in your stuff to a supervisor as soon as you can." That's the norm in many EMS systems.
5) yes, they did not get a crew out. that is an issue. a big one. and many 100% career EMS systems have extended responses or can't answer all their calls, and it sucks when your mutual aid is unavailable. That's a completely separate issue, and has no bearing on his actions. He still broke the rules, and the response of "he did what was right, he took the ambulance to help the sick kid" doesn't excuse his actions.
Just reviewing what is on my page (not even taking into account what others have said on other FB pages):
1) there are dumb rules. There are also rules from management (volunteer or career). There are many that I don't agree with, and many on here don't agree with either. HOWEVER, they are still the rules of the agency. They exist for a reason, and that reason might be as simple as "60 years ago, we thought this would be a good idea, and it's worked for us for 60 years." Don't like them? don't be part of the agency. or become a supervisor, and change the rules. I know where i work, and have worked, there were rules. and if I wanted to continue to maintain my employment, I am expected to follow the rules. If I want to break the rules, I should probably have supervisory approval first.
2) Many have said "well, he saved the life, it needed to be done, it all worked out, no harm no foul." The ends DO NOT justify the means. This time nothing bad happened.. what about next time? We all remember what happened to the paramedics who performed the field C-section. it needed to get done, a life needed to be saved. what happened to them?
3) He broke the rules, and discipline needed to be taken. Otherwise the response of "well I needed to get the ambulance out the door" because a valid reason to break any rules. Is 60 days excessive? I think so, but it wasn't my call. Removal from the Junior Advisor position? he's 20; how much experience does he really have? Probably appropriate. communications committee? who cares. These has to be a consequence for his actions
4) This is a private, internal disciplinary action that should have never made the news. The agency can't say why exactly he was suspended (privacy laws and all), but he can play the hero to the media. Not only that, but now the agency CAN'T change their actions; doing so would be a clear sign of poor management, because they are letting the opinions of outsiders change how they operate. I am sure the public loves him right now... after all, he saved the day. What if he had crashed, while transporting the sick kid to the hospital. what do you think the public response would have been? Oh, and when I was separated from a former 100% career agency, I wasn't invited to the disciplinary meeting; I wasn't even made aware of it. they said I broke a rule, I wasn't able to give any response, they sent me a letter saying "thank you but your services are no longer needed, turn in your stuff to a supervisor as soon as you can." That's the norm in many EMS systems.
5) yes, they did not get a crew out. that is an issue. a big one. and many 100% career EMS systems have extended responses or can't answer all their calls, and it sucks when your mutual aid is unavailable. That's a completely separate issue, and has no bearing on his actions. He still broke the rules, and the response of "he did what was right, he took the ambulance to help the sick kid" doesn't excuse his actions.
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