Does your BLS unit carry an AED?

cbdemt

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Originally posted by MMiz@Jun 16 2004, 04:53 PM

Very interesting.

Our ALS and Paramedic First Responder (One medic in a Tahoe) carry the LifePak12. ALS is no more than 5 minutes away, and the farthest hospital would probably be 10-15 minutes coding.

I really think it all comes down to cost. As a private company, I dont think they can rationalize spending so much on a unit when ALS is so close. I also know the units we carry have the PulseOx, BP system, Vent monitor, and a few more add-ons.

As a basic are you trained to do EKGs? Do you have ACLS too?

very interesting, thanks for sharing.
That’s a good point. I guess if the majority of our departments were not in rural areas it wouldn’t be such an issue.

We are trained to recognize basic rhythms (vfib, vtach, brady, etc.) It also is handy when we intercept with ALS in route to the hospital (which happens on most of our ALS calls) because we can already have the patient on the monitor and be running tape when the Medic boards.

We aren’t ACLS - I don’t see that happening in the near future either. I'd be happy if they'd give us advanced airways!
 

rescuecpt

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Wow - it blows my mind that not all BLS units have AED's! They are required in New York State. My volunteer fire department is 20 minutes from the hospital and would not survive without the AED. I also ride with an ambulance corps 2 towns over - we run about 10 calls a day - we have an AED and a manual defibrilator on each rig (we have 4 plus a first responder and two fully stocked chiefs cars).

There's no point in showing up on an arrest call unless you have an AED - and since I've become an AEMT, I'm starting to believe there's little value in showing up if you don't have a manual defibrillator and at least a 6 lead ECG.
 

MMiz

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Originally posted by rescuelt@Jun 24 2004, 01:02 PM
Wow - it blows my mind that not all BLS units have AED's! They are required in New York State. My volunteer fire department is 20 minutes from the hospital and would not survive without the AED. I also ride with an ambulance corps 2 towns over - we run about 10 calls a day - we have an AED and a manual defibrilator on each rig (we have 4 plus a first responder and two fully stocked chiefs cars).

There's no point in showing up on an arrest call unless you have an AED - and since I've become an AEMT, I'm starting to believe there's little value in showing up if you don't have a manual defibrillator and at least a 6 lead ECG.
EMT-Basics / BLS units in our county mainly have one function, transports. 75% of our calls are transports. BLS units also have another use, ALS transport with a FF/Medic on board. Usually the FD will respond with their engine and ambulance. They'll initiate care and do almost all the work. BLS will arrive only to transport. Literally, they just sit there while the medic does everything, and the medics all have LifePak 12s.

Our company is different though, we're provided the best and newest equipment. We have AEDs, PulseOxs, Electric Suction, 800 MHzs, and all that good stuff. We're a non-profit though, so all the extra money we make goes back into the company. BLS units are also allowed to work as first-responders with the contracts we have. We might get there first, and initiate care. Once ALS arrives, no more than 1 minute later, we step back and assist them. Usually we're cancelled before ALS clears.

Our ALS units have 12 leads, once again the only private service in the county.

The saying goes, in our county there are two levels of EMS: Paramedics and ambulance drivers.
 

ma2va92

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every squad in our county has AED .. also every fire truck. and every police car.. or deputy car
 

MMiz

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Originally posted by GVRS672@Jul 20 2004, 12:03 PM
every squad in our county has AED .. also every fire truck. and every police car.. or deputy car
That's impressive. How large is your county?
 

ma2va92

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Originally posted by MMiz+Jul 21 2004, 08:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MMiz @ Jul 21 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GVRS672@Jul 20 2004, 12:03 PM
every squad in our county has AED .. also every fire truck. and every police car.. or deputy car
That's impressive. How large is your county? [/b][/quote]
Our County is comprised of 764 square miles in the west-central portion of Virginia's central plateau. The area has a rolling to hilly terrain with elevations from 800 feet to 4,200 feet above sea level.

wow that sounds good.. not my wording.... direct copy paste from the couty office.. lol well it answered your question
 

rescuecpt

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Originally posted by MMiz@Jun 16 2004, 04:53 PM
ALS is no more than 5 minutes away, and the farthest hospital would probably be 10-15 minutes coding.
A LOT of heart muscle can die in no more than 5 minutes...
 

ffemt8978

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Right now, there is a big discussion being tossed around the ASHI mailing lists about AED's being made available over-the-counter. Given the current costs of approximately $2000 per unit, should you also be required to obtain a prescription from a doctor to possess one, say, in your own home?

I don't even want to get into a discussion about the training requirements to use one, if they are made available over the counter. I would rather hear if you think this is a good idea in the first place, and why.
 

SafetyPro2

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Some manufacturers are actually, well, not circumventing, but expediting the whole prescription process by selling the units with a pre-packaged prescription/medical oversight program and training package where they schedule a trainer in your area to come train you. You can actually buy one manufacturer's AEDs at Costco (think it's mail-order only). We actually used a similar program when we got ours at my last job...a subsidiary of the manufacturer provided the prescription and medical oversight. We scheduled the training on our own through our first aid/CPR provider.

I personnally would love to see the prescription requirement go away, so long as there's a system to ensure that the training and medical oversight are handled properly. I don't see the need for a prescription because of the simple fact that there's no reason NOT to prescribe them. A prescription only makes sense if the doctor is making some determination whether or not its a good idea. Currently though, the prescription process' only real purpose is to ensure the training is done and that there's medical oversight. I think there's a better way to handle that though.

I also think everyone should be trained in first aid/CPR. I'd almost go so far as to suggest it be a requirement for graduation from HS. That's not to say that everyone's cut out to do it, or that I think everyone should be required to maintain certification, but I think everyone should at least learn it once.
 

rescuecpt

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We had to learn first aid and CPR in highschool - it was part of health class and if you didn't pass health class, you didnt graduate.
 

MariaCatEMT

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The vollie fire department I joined has two AED's (so two of three rigs have them on board).

In my community, the police also carry AED's (some not all, usually shift supervisors) last I heard, despite the fact that ALS response time is swift.

Much of the city fire department also is geared with AED's. Some of our schools have them as well.

All the near-by rural services have them as well.

AED's everywhere!
 

MCSOMED54

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We have six AEDs, soon to add a seventh. The are made available to our BLS members to checkout when they go on duty. The Paramedics have ALS gear to carry.
 

Ray1129

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:blink: This topic of discussion really has my jaw dropped. I never knew that there were places that *didn't* carry at *least* an AED. In Maryland, we're not technically considered a BLS unit unless we have one. There are rural companies that can't afford them, but even then that's something top on the list of things to get. It's in the BLS protocol to use an AED....

I understand that not every state has the same BLS protocols, but I honestly thought that that was a universal thing.

In Maryland, all first responder ambulance are fire department based. There are private ambulance services that do facility to facility transports....90% of their calls are non-emergency. In the fire department, most units carry the lifepak12 or some equivilent. In private companies, it depends on if you're an ALS unit or BLS. Most BLS units carry an AED, and the ALS get the lifepak12's(or equivilent).

It's also becoming standard in Maryland that police departments carry them, and they are even being prescribed to cardiac patients. They've started going up in malls, airports, churches, etc. I thought it was just standard for them to be on ambulances first....

Pardon my ignorance....I'm really kept sheltered, aparently. *impish grin*
 

croaker260

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In our state, if you are a liscensed aBLS ambulance, OR a liscenced first responder agency, your rig must have an AED.
This does not apply to wildland fire fighting crews though.
 

MMiz

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Originally posted by MCSOMED54@Jul 28 2004, 07:24 PM
We have six AEDs, soon to add a seventh. The are made available to our BLS members to checkout when they go on duty. The Paramedics have ALS gear to carry.
First, Welcome to the forum!

I agree, it's something that should be made available to BLS. My company agrees also, all of our BLS units carry AEDs.

I see you're from Maricopa County. As soon as I read that, I tried to think of where I remember that name from. Then I went to the county web site. I don't think I could disagree with your Sheriff's ideology and practices, but you people sure do seem to like him.

Welcome to the forum though, and I hope you continue to post!
 

rescuecpt

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As an officer I have O2 and a BLS bag in my POV, but I am not technically a "first responder" because I don't have an AED. If the department bites the bullet and buys me one, I will be a certified NYS first responder. Right now, I just tend to accidentally "show up" on scene before the ambulance on BLS calls. If the call comes over as ALS, I always go to the Firehouse because that's where my sharp things and druggy things live. :rolleyes:
 
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