Do you need to stop at MVAs? What do you do if there is no need for EMS

[DrParasite]

As I am driving to work today, I drive past a minor fender bender in the middle lane of a 5 lane divided highway (2 lanes in each direction, with a shared left turn lane in the center). Everyone's out of the vehicle, didn't even see any damage as I rubber necked my way past the incident, but in the other direction, a marked EMS flycar (supervisor, logistics, admin, idk), turned on his EWDs, and stopped. Which got me thinking:

1) are marked EMS vehicles, when not on a current assignment, obligated to stop at possible incidents (MVCs, man down, etc)?
1a) is there any potential liability if they don't stop?

2) if they do stop, and EMS is not needed, then what? are they obligated to stay? if PD has an extended ETA, can EMS leave the scene, as it is not an EMS issue? If you are the fire department, and there is no need for the FD, and while you are at the scene, you get a report of a house fire with kids trapped in your first due, are you able to leave the scene, if no one else is there?

2a) if they do leave the scene, as there is nothing for EMS to do, and a truck doesn't see the crash and creates a secondary incident, can the EMS crew be liable?

 

[Tigger]

We leave accidents that we’ve been dispatched to if law enforcement hasn’t shown up and it meets the criteria to “cold report,” which means no serious injuries, alcohol/drugs, or private property damage. The parties call the agency with jurisdiction and do a verbal report and the cops don’t even come. So I don’t see how we’d be liable if we left a non injury accident that we came up on, after making appropriate notifications of course.

I do feel obligated to stop and check for injuries in these situations but there is nothing in statutes pertaining to EMS in Colorado specific to this aside from the usual “duty to act” verbiage.

We also move drivable vehicles out of traffic ASAP even if that’s prior to law enforcement arrival so if that’s possible we’ll make that happen. Our battalion chief vehicles will drag or push non drivable vehicles out of lanes if need be.

 

[E tank]

2a) if they do leave the scene, as there is nothing for EMS to do, and a truck doesn't see the crash and creates a secondary incident, can the EMS crew be liable?

Can't see how you'd be liable for an event you neither caused much less were not present for. Inattentive driving is inattentive driving.

 

[DrParasite]

Can't see how you'd be liable for an event you neither caused much less were not present for. Inattentive driving is inattentive driving.

great point... lets look up the requirements for negligence, as per https://www.lawsuitlegal.com/negligence.php

Duty: A consideration in proving negligence is whether the defendant owed a duty to the injured party. Many defined relationships require people to act in a certain manner. In certain situations, people owe to another a duty of care. In order to establish negligence, the first question in a court which must be answered is whether or not the person was required to exercise reasonable care in the circumstances involved. In a suit, the judge is empowered with deciding whether the defendant had a duty of care in the circumstances. If a duty is found to be owed, the first element is established.

Breach of Duty: Failing to exercise reasonable care in fulfilling a determined duty established as owed results in a breach of duty. This is not a determination of whether a duty exists, rather a jury will determine whether the establish duty was not exercised.

Cause in Fact (Causation): The rules of negligence next require that the actions in question caused the tort. In other words, did the alleged actions lead to the injury suffered by the victim. The plaintiff would be required to prove the injuries sustained by the defendant's negligent act caused the injuries leading to the legal action. Commonly the "But For" rule is used to establish causation. Ask yourself whether the harm suffered would have happened but for the actions of the target of your suit.

Proximate Cause: To determine legal responsibility you must establish the most direct cause of the harm in question. In other words, what was the most direct action responsible for the injuries. A plaintiff needs to be able to prove that the actions of the defendant are the closest cause of the injuries sustained. The act which caused the harm should have been foreseen by the that would have resulted. For example: a party is not liable for injuries sustained resulting from actions taken as a result of an initial causation - an accident in the ambulance heading to the hospital would not have a proximate cause tied to the car accident which caused the emergency services to be called initially.

Damages: Finally, the negligence laws require a legal harm to be proven. In other words, a plaintiff in a negligence claim must show a harm was suffered in the form of personal injury or property damage. If a defendant failed to exercise reasonable care in the circumstances - but no harm was suffered - legal negligence is not established. Actual damages to the person owed a duty of care must be established for a negligence claim to have merit in a court of law.

Duty: did the ambulance crew have a duty to protect the scene with their vehicle/emergency warning lights?
Breach: did they beach that duty by leaving the scene unprotected
causation: did leaving the scene eliminate that protective barrier, and prevent the protection that they had been providing coverage from the scene from having other vehicles crash into them?
proximate cause: was it a a foreseen possibility that when you remove the flashing lights, that a vehicle could crash into the scene?
Damages: the car was hit by a truck... 'nuff said

is it a stretch? maybe, I'm no law expert, but is the risk there?

 

[CCCSD]

If you are a private company, you have no duty, since a call for service starts your “contfact”. You have no more “duty” than not picking up a piece of litter.

If you are a true Gov agency, then you may have a legal duty as per state law.

Ex: in CA, LE, driving marked units, if not on a call or transporting prisoners, MUST stop and assist motorists in distress on highways and freeways, at the minimum, they must notify dispatch of the situation to ensure LE response (Driving in the No 1 lane in heavy traffic and you can’t safely get over three lanes).

 

[MackTheKnife]

As I am driving to work today, I drive past a minor fender bender in the middle lane of a 5 lane divided highway (2 lanes in each direction, with a shared left turn lane in the center). Everyone's out of the vehicle, didn't even see any damage as I rubber necked my way past the incident, but in the other direction, a marked EMS flycar (supervisor, logistics, admin, idk), turned on his EWDs, and stopped. Which got me thinking:

1) are marked EMS vehicles, when not on a current assignment, obligated to stop at possible incidents (MVCs, man down, etc)?
1a) is there any potential liability if they don't stop?

2) if they do stop, and EMS is not needed, then what? are they obligated to stay? if PD has an extended ETA, can EMS leave the scene, as it is not an EMS issue? If you are the fire department, and there is no need for the FD, and while you are at the scene, you get a report of a house fire with kids trapped in your first due, are you able to leave the scene, if no one else is there?

2a) if they do leave the scene, as there is nothing for EMS to do, and a truck doesn't see the crash and creates a secondary incident, can the EMS crew be liable?

You ask a lot of great questions. Foremost, Duty To Act vis-a-vis municipality assets is state and county/city specific; and can be found in the statutes. Duty To Act for a medic/EMT off duty is only required in about 4 states (I did a paper on this a few years ago, but you didn't ask this).

 

[MackTheKnife]

great point... lets look up the requirements for negligence, as per https://www.lawsuitlegal.com/negligence.php

Duty: did the ambulance crew have a duty to protect the scene with their vehicle/emergency warning lights?
Breach: did they beach that duty by leaving the scene unprotected
causation: did leaving the scene eliminate that protective barrier, and prevent the protection that they had been providing coverage from the scene from having other vehicles crash into them?
proximate cause: was it a a foreseen possibility that when you remove the flashing lights, that a vehicle could crash into the scene?
Damages: the car was hit by a truck... 'nuff said

is it a stretch? maybe, I'm no law expert, but is the risk there?

What you stated is the same thing for malpractice. The first of the four elements is DUTY TO ACT, or in the hospital setting, required standard of care, and that standard of care was violated. The answer is what does the statute(s) say; local, state, etc.? As for risk, it is not an element, not a foreseeable risk.

 

[E tank]

Duty: did the ambulance crew have a duty to protect the scene with their vehicle/emergency warning lights?
Breach: did they beach that duty by leaving the scene unprotected
causation: did leaving the scene eliminate that protective barrier, and prevent the protection that they had been providing coverage from the scene from having other vehicles crash into them?
proximate cause: was it a a foreseen possibility that when you remove the flashing lights, that a vehicle could crash into the scene?
Damages: the car was hit by a truck... 'nuff said

What would the case arguments be? 'cause that is the only thing that counts. Inattentive/drunk drivers plow into lit up emergency vehicles all the time. Any attorney could speculate anything...but that isn't an argument. May as well argue that stopping unnecessarily creates a hazard and is a set up for liability.

 

[CCCSD]

What would the case arguments be? 'cause that is the only thing that counts. Inattentive/drunk drivers plow into lit up emergency vehicles all the time. Any attorney could speculate anything...but that isn't an argument. May as well argue that stopping unnecessarily creates a hazard and is a set up for liability.

I would posit that by stopping, you are creating the exigency. I’ll take $1 Million. Thanks.

 

[Fastfrankie19151]

In Pennsylvania you have a duty to act now as long as you at least notify emergency services you indeed have acted. However If you are in a marked vehicle even if it is a private transport company you have to stop. I stopped for a accident about 15 years ago in my work vehicle non emergency services it was a 2 vehicle mvc with obvious injuries I called 911 but had 1 patient who had uncontrolled bleeding I had done the best I could to control it I attempted to flag down a private transport truck from one of the largest providers in the area the crew told me they had a patient on board yet both emt’s were in the front seat and I know they only run two to a crew plus I saw through the back doors the stretcher was empty. Those two emt’s are no longer licensed and they shouldn’t be because of their actions luckily despite the long response times for Philadelphia Fire Ems they got their quickly and the patient survived.

 

[johnrsemt]

That is always a tough question:

I always stopped when I didn't have a patient on board; and a couple of times if it looked bad, when we did: but 1 of us always stayed with our patient. I put a tourniquet on a partially amputated leg on a motorcycle accident. When fire arrived, I got yelled at for it by the officer on the engine and the moro.. I mean lieutenant took it off (and got sprayed in the face with arterial blood); and I got to put the T back on.
Dispatch accused me more than once of stopping at imaginary MVC's to get out of Dialysis transports.

Make it more interesting of a question; do you have a duty to stop when you are out of your home state? I transported to or from 15 states while working in Indiana, and I worked MVC's and other runs in 13 of them (including 2 mass casualty runs). Then you get into what protocols do you work with.