Do you get "sleep pay?"

[adamjh3]

I remember reading this thread a while back on sleep pay and the legalities of a company switching over to "sleep pay." I recently accepted a position at an ambulance company that runs 24 hour shifts on this basis:

14 hours paid out of 24, (example 8a-12 midnight) with 2 hours of non-paid for meals and 8 hours non-paid sleep. Calls/Responses between 12-midnight and 8am shall be compensated @ 1.5 overtime rate. Employees receiving less than three (3) hours of sleep will be paid for the entire 24-hour shift. Please refer to the Labor Law Rules and Regulations (transportation) regarding the exception of the hourly rule for Ambulance Companies.

So basically, I'm at the station for 24 hours and only get paid for 14, unless I get a call during my "rest period" (which doesn't seem likely, the crew chief said we're very slow down here).

I'm not sure how I feel about this compensation rate. On one hand, I am on duty, I cannot leave the station, but I am not getting paid. OTOH, I am sleeping, so why should I get paid for that?

How many of you have schedules similar to this? How do you feel about it? Is this acceptable to you?

 

[Shishkabob]

EMS is Earn Money Sleeping, right?



I know around here 24hr private crews get paid a different hourly rate than the 12hr crews, but it all equals out at the end of the year. I still get paid even if I'm sleeping on my 12hr truck.

 

[Veneficus]

In CA you probably have to take what you get.

If I am not free to come and go as I please and must be ready for response, then I accept nothing less than my full rate.

I would not even apply to a company that paid me less than my hourly rate, I would work at McDs first. That way my time is my own when I am not being paid.

I think anyone accepting "sleep pay" is letting themselves be taken advantage of so somebody else can earn a bigger profit.

 

[adamjh3]

In CA you probably have to take what you get.

If I am not free to come and go as I please and must be ready for response, then I accept nothing less than my full rate.

I would not even apply to a company that paid me less than my hourly rate, I would work at McDs first. That way my time is my own when I am not being paid.

I think anyone accepting "sleep pay" is letting themselves be taken advantage of so somebody else can earn a bigger profit.

Yeah, I'm not in a position to pick and choose where I work, yet. I saw your post in the other thread I linked to, and I agree with you. Unfortunately this is the only company that would hire me right now, so I had to take what I could get. Just kind of looking into other people's thoughts on this.

 

[EMSLaw]

If those are the conditions you agreed to when you took the job, then you're going to have to suck it up.

Now, my personal opinion? The ambulance world is full of shady, money-grubbing, fly-by-night parasites. You may or may not have just become associated with one. Watch your six.

 

[adamjh3]

If those are the conditions you agreed to when you took the job, then you're going to have to suck it up.

Now, my personal opinion? The ambulance world is full of shady, money-grubbing, fly-by-night parasites. You may or may not have just become associated with one. Watch your six.

Just to clarify, I'm not complaining, I knew the conditions when I got hired. I'm just looking at people's opinions on this.

 

[reaper]

Because they know that desperate people will do anything.

Go get a job at walmart and leave the scum to themselves!

 

[looker]

If those are the conditions you agreed to when you took the job, then you're going to have to suck it up.

Now, my personal opinion? The ambulance world is full of shady, money-grubbing, fly-by-night parasites. You may or may not have just become associated with one. Watch your six.

So you think that you should earn say $15-20 an hour, plus full benefits etc? I am sorry to tell you this but the market do not support that. Replacing an employee in this market is as easy as to say 1,2,3. As such we will pay the market price. When you have skills that can't be easily be replaced, the wage will go up. People open/buy an ambulance company for one reason and that is to make money. If you do not like it, you're welcome to look for another job

 

[Focallength]

24 hour shift x2 48 hours 8 hours overtime. Company has several apartments where 24 hour crews rest in between calls. Yes they work 2 days a week and get paid for all hours. Northern california, I suppose if they werent busy they would go to something like this but we typically run on average 1 call an hour.

 

[Veneficus]

So you think that you should earn say $15-20 an hour, plus full benefits etc? I am sorry to tell you this but the market do not support that. Replacing an employee in this market is as easy as to say 1,2,3. As such we will pay the market price. When you have skills that can't be easily be replaced, the wage will go up. People open/buy an ambulance company for one reason and that is to make money. If you do not like it, you're welcome to look for another job

That is certainly a fair response, but my thinking is I would rather pay more for a dedicated and loyal employee as it will cost less in injuries, damaged equipment, and the other consequences of a poor working environment with low employee morale. (like angry employees costing contracts with poor performance, appearance, or attitude)

Sure you can replace the employee readily, but how easy is it to replace the contract already lost because of it?

 

[looker]

That is certainly a fair response, but my thinking is I would rather pay more for a dedicated and loyal employee as it will cost less in injuries, damaged equipment, and the other consequences of a poor working environment with low employee morale. (like angry employees costing contracts with poor performance, appearance, or attitude)

Sure you can replace the employee readily, but how easy is it to replace the contract already lost because of it?

Good point, yes taking employee loyality, performance, experience etc in to equation is a must. With that being said, in this market employees getting fired just because boss wasn't in good mood day as they know they can find replacement easily. Most employees will work their *** off being that they do not want to end up on unemployment and be out of work for years sometimes. The reason why OP company does what they do is because they can get away with it both legally and economically.

 

[looker]

24 hour shift x2 48 hours 8 hours overtime. Company has several apartments where 24 hour crews rest in between calls. Yes they work 2 days a week and get paid for all hours. Northern california, I suppose if they werent busy they would go to something like this but we typically run on average 1 call an hour.

Sounds like you're extremely busy and being you got no downtown the company basically got no choice. If the company that OP works for was as busy as you're, employees would basically be getting paid for all hours.

 

[EMSLaw]

So you think that you should earn say $15-20 an hour, plus full benefits etc? I am sorry to tell you this but the market do not support that. Replacing an employee in this market is as easy as to say 1,2,3. As such we will pay the market price. When you have skills that can't be easily be replaced, the wage will go up. People open/buy an ambulance company for one reason and that is to make money. If you do not like it, you're welcome to look for another job

No, I think that *I* should earn quite a bit more than that, but then again, I work as an attorney, not as an EMT.

However, $15/hr comes out to a whopping $31,200/yr gross. And since I doubt you're footing the entire bill for those benefits, that actually doesn't sound like an unreasonable wage to me.

Nevertheless, you're right, EMT's are a dime a dozen and easily replaced. In my mind, that still doesn't excuse the utter lack of any sort of social responsibility shown by the owners of ambulance companies, who never miss an opportunity to eek the last dime out of their employees and patients both. I invite you to review the difference between making a fair profit, and what economists call "rent".

Perhaps trade groups like the American Ambulance Association should realize that they should be less concerned about keeping the standards low enough to have an endless supply of willing drones, and should be more concerned with raising standards so that they can argue for higher reimbursements.

 

[Veneficus]

Good point, yes taking employee loyality, performance, experience etc in to equation is a must. With that being said, in this market employees getting fired just because boss wasn't in good mood day as they know they can find replacement easily. Most employees will work their *** off being that they do not want to end up on unemployment and be out of work for years sometimes. The reason why OP company does what they do is because they can get away with it both legally and economically.

Legal? sure

Moral/Ethical? Who cares?

But I don't think it is economical in the long term. A frustrated/angry workforce working harder was pioneered in the early industrial age, it proved unsustainable.

If I owned a business i would measure my success by making as much money as possible. But I would rather make $1 million a year for 20 years than $2 million a year for 5.

 

[adamjh3]

Sounds like you're extremely busy and being you got no downtown the company basically got no choice. If the company that OP works for was as busy as you're, employees would basically be getting paid for all hours.

Yes, we would get paid if we were actually working (i.e. we get calls during our "rest period"). However, we get about 8 calls a day dispersed among two to three trucks. Not very busy.

The schedule usually comes out to 1x24hr shift and 2x12hr shifts per week, with some variations depending upon availability etc. I'm liking the schedule, and I don't mind the 24's.

 

[looker]

No, I think that *I* should earn quite a bit more than that, but then again, I work as an attorney, not as an EMT.

However, $15/hr comes out to a whopping $31,200/yr gross. And since I doubt you're footing the entire bill for those benefits, that actually doesn't sound like an unreasonable wage to me.

Nevertheless, you're right, EMT's are a dime a dozen and easily replaced. In my mind, that still doesn't excuse the utter lack of any sort of social responsibility shown by the owners of ambulance companies, who never miss an opportunity to eek the last dime out of their employees and patients both. I invite you to review the difference between making a fair profit, and what economists call "rent".

Perhaps trade groups like the American Ambulance Association should realize that they should be less concerned about keeping the standards low enough to have an endless supply of willing drones, and should be more concerned with raising standards so that they can argue for higher reimbursements.

I am familar with the economic concept of "rent" and profit as I have finance degree. As business owner my main concern is to keep patients happy. Without them i will be out of business. The second part is to keep employees happy with that being said, in this economy keeping employees happy is much easier being unemployeement is very high. I see no reason to leave money on the table when i can put them in my pocket or back in business otherwise eventually i will go bankrupt .

I personally can't stand associations(my education says what i am doing is wrong but w/e) so i am not part of any and have no intention of being member of them. The reimbursement will go up when supply and demand changes. Until such time, reimbursement is what it is.

 

[looker]

Legal? sure

Moral/Ethical? Who cares?

But I don't think it is economical in the long term. A frustrated/angry workforce working harder was pioneered in the early industrial age, it proved unsustainable.

If I owned a business i would measure my success by making as much money as possible. But I would rather make $1 million a year for 20 years than $2 million a year for 5.

Simple question , with unemployment being so high where will you go?
Once economy will start recovering and others jobs are becoming more available, it will be easier to pick and choose where you want to work for and how much.

 

[Veneficus]

Simple question , with unemployment being so high where will you go?
Once economy will start recovering and others jobs are becoming more available, it will be easier to pick and choose where you want to work for and how much.

With just my paramedic certification I could get a job tomorrow paying what i would call a decent wage. (my experience is quite rare and marketable too)

My instructor certs bring me a premium both in the clinical environment and in the educational environment. (so much so, I am currently turning down 16-20 hours a week at a rate far higher than any IFT company I ever heard of pays paramedics)

Well before this economy improves I will have my MD degree and there is definately no shortage of well paying jobs with that anywhere in the world.

I agree 100% if all you have is EMT-B, it is a vocational cert that leaves you at the mercy of others. with all the flash, spin, smoke and mirrors aside, it is not much better than having no skill at all.

 

[Trayos]

With just my paramedic certification I could get a job tomorrow paying what i would call a decent wage. (my experience is quite rare and marketable too)

My instructor certs bring me a premium both in the clinical environment and in the educational environment. (so much so, I am currently turning down 16-20 hours a week at a rate far higher than any IFT company I ever heard of pays paramedics)

Well before this economy improves I will have my MD degree and there is definately no shortage of well paying jobs with that anywhere in the world.

I agree 100% if all you have is EMT-B, it is a vocational cert that leaves you at the mercy of others. with all the flash, spin, smoke and mirrors aside, it is not much better than having no skill at all.

Are you planning on working as both a paramedic and an MD?

 

[looker]

With just my paramedic certification I could get a job tomorrow paying what i would call a decent wage. (my experience is quite rare and marketable too)

My instructor certs bring me a premium both in the clinical environment and in the educational environment. (so much so, I am currently turning down 16-20 hours a week at a rate far higher than any IFT company I ever heard of pays paramedics)

Well before this economy improves I will have my MD degree and there is definately no shortage of well paying jobs with that anywhere in the world.

I agree 100% if all you have is EMT-B, it is a vocational cert that leaves you at the mercy of others. with all the flash, spin, smoke and mirrors aside, it is not much better than having no skill at all.

Being that you got experience that is quiet rate the pay is much more. Sounds like people with your skills are not that easy to find.