Do you carry your own liability insurance??? Well, you should.

[NUEMT]

http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/articles/733288-Provider-Insurance-Convenience-or-Necessity/

Specifically the last paragraph. David Givot is both paramedic and an EMS attorney.

 

[Summit]

A judgement against you may result in an "execution" of that judgement. Have a car? A house? An expensive guitar? Guns? All fair game should the plaintiff "levy on the execution." Let's not forget either, just flat out filing for a "supplemental process" to have your wages garnished. You may not see yourself as a good target but the motivated party can ruin whatever happens to be there. How does that 100 dollars look now?

It looks like you better look up bankruptcy protection instead of insurance company scare tactics. I've seen a innocent poor girl sued by a vindictive rich person. She declared bankrupty. Her liability insurance wouldn't have covered the amount pursued and it was a justification to reduce costs. She declared bankrupty based on other debts before the civil case even ended. She listed the pending litigation as a debt to be discharged if completed. They wouldn't have been able to take her car or garnish her wages had they pursued further. They dropped the case. Problem solved.

You can purchase prepaid legal cost insurance with that $100. Again, make yourself a hard target with poor rewards.

Or if you have assets to protect, you can purchase an Umbrella Policy with a professional rider that would shield you in most personal liability instead of only the most unlikely type (EMS malpractice).

Look, if you have your personal liability coverage rates maxed out on your auto and home policies, or in accordance with the coverage requirements of your sufficiently large umbrella policy, THEN you could start looking at malpractice insurance.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THOSE THINGS, YOUR PRIORITIES ARE SCREWED UP IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT MALPRACTICE INSURANCE!

IANAL IANAFA

HPSO is not going to save you from a car wreck you caused. You are many times more likely to need prepaid legal, auto, home, or umbrella coverage than malpractice in EMS.

 

[Summit]

In mentioning the administrative actions, I am referring to the EMS licensing process at the state level. Yours may vary. Many times an administrative judge will preside over hearings regarding the violation of supposed rules and regulations, protocols, and the like. In this case, without proper representation (not by your company since this part involves your personal license) you may find yourself at the mercy of a system a few episodes of "Law and Order" won't help you to fake your way through.

Most state board investigations don't involve charges being filed. When they do, most of the investigation take place prior.

Your policy will not provide you a lawyer for license defense... until after the formal charges are filed.

Read your policy again. You already read it once... right?

 

[Summit]

http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/articles/733288-Provider-Insurance-Convenience-or-Necessity/

Specifically the last paragraph. David Givot is both paramedic and an EMS attorney.

I'll counter this simplistic scare tactic "YOU'LL LOSE YOUR JOB AND YOUR DOG IF YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE!"

With a much better article about how HPSO et al work. Yes it is nsg orienteid but most of it carries over to EMS:

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/one-healthcare-risk-999441.html

For starters, your malpractice coverage is likely going to be a secondary policy to your employers coverage.

There is a reason this insurance is SO CHEAP yet the insurance company is making money. It is because the chances of you being able to use it are beyond remote.

 

[mgr22]

I'll counter this simplistic scare tactic "YOU'LL LOSE YOUR JOB AND YOUR DOG IF YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE!"

With a much better article about how HPSO et al work. Yes it is nsg orienteid but most of it carries over to EMS:

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/one-healthcare-risk-999441.html

For starters, your malpractice coverage is likely going to be a secondary policy to your employers coverage.

There is a reason this insurance is SO CHEAP yet the insurance company is making money. It is because the chances of you being able to use it are beyond remote.

I'm not sure about this, Summit. I get your argument about probably never being sued, but do you think the best way for me, as a medic, to make a decision about whether to carry liability insurance is to base it on what nurses do?

 

[Summit]

I'm not sure about this, Summit. I get your argument about probably never being sued, but do you think the best way for me, as a medic, to make a decision about whether to carry liability insurance is to base it on what nurses do?

Not on what nurses do, but on how the insurance works, because it is the SAME companies and SAME underwriters for their policies and Paramedic policies. It is one industry and you can learn how it works and the pitfalls from that indepth article that is quite informative if you read it. It is written by a healthcare risk manager who worked in the field. Most of the content is NOT nursing specific.

 

[akflightmedic]

And I still come back to my first question without all the pomp and circumstance....SHOW ME a documented case where a paramedic was sued for medical liability and had to pay or have wage garnishment. When the seller of the insurance cannot even do it, I certainly challenge you to do so.

That simple.

I can have my mind changed...with evidence.

 

[mgr22]

Not on what nurses do, but on how the insurance works, because it is the SAME companies and SAME underwriters for their policies and Paramedic policies. It is one industry and you can learn how it works and the pitfalls from that indepth article that is quite informative if you read it. It is written by a healthcare risk manager who worked in the field. Most of the content is NOT nursing specific.

I did read it. Here's what I'm wondering:

When the author says he's writing the article to answer the question, "As a nurse, should I buy my own malpractice insurance?", how much of that applies to medics like me?

When the author qualifies his advice as being "for a nurse employed by a hospital or healthcare facility," does it also apply to medics who work in neither environment?

When the author advises me, the reader, to buy a "nursing malpractice liability policy," how much weight should I give that as a medic?

While this article may have some advice relevant to paramedics, what makes it the best source of information for us? Conversely, would an article about risk management for paramedics be the best source of advice for nurses?

 

[mgr22]

And I still come back to my first question without all the pomp and circumstance....SHOW ME a documented case where a paramedic was sued for medical liability and had to pay or have wage garnishment. When the seller of the insurance cannot even do it, I certainly challenge you to do so.

That simple.

I can have my mind changed...with evidence.

Didn't we already do this?

 

[akflightmedic]

No, we did not. You brought a case completely irrelevant. And I discussed it.

A vehicle crash is not relevant and is not covered by HPSO. As I requested, bring me a medical liability claim against a paramedic...also note that HPSO, the one who sells this insurance cannot even highlight a claim.

 

[mgr22]

Wasn't it maybe only partly irrelevant?

 

[akflightmedic]

No, it was wholly irrelevant.

Crashing a vehicle into another vehicle and possibly breaking laws and having all kinds of stuff go wrong through you or your employer's inactions is not relevant. This was a vehicle insurance claim (should have been). Which HPSO does not cover.

As said earlier, if they did the premiums would be significantly higher and you would not get coverage by a few clicks and $100 transfer.

Find a case where a medic has been sued for medical malpractice and the insurance saved his/her butt. Again, the very insurance company which sells these policies cannot demonstrate an instance, so go for it!

 

[mgr22]

It's an attractive offer, researching medical malpractice and the insurance industry, but I think I'm gonna go watch some hockey instead.

Did you see NUEMT's link to the David Givot piece?

 

[Summit]

Did you see NUEMT's link to the David Givot piece?

You mean the brilliant piece with lines like


"EMS is the only profession I can think of where the provider places his or her license to practice and livelihood on the line and dares the world to take it away — every shift."

What a crock!

"if something happens and you are not insured, you could find yourself living a country song when you lose your job, your truck, your house...and maybe your dog."

Oh COME ON!

 

[akflightmedic]

See, I did my research and supported my position. I am seeking the same...reasonable request in my opinion.

I do not watch sports so enjoy.

 

[mgr22]

You mean the brilliant piece with lines like


"EMS is the only profession I can think of where the provider places his or her license to practice and livelihood on the line and dares the world to take it away — every shift."

What a crock!

"if something happens and you are not insured, you could find yourself living a country song when you lose your job, your truck, your house...and maybe your dog."

Oh COME ON!

Ok, so much for David Givot. You guys are a tough crowd. Do you buy any insurance?

 

[Summit]

Ok, so much for David Givot. You guys are a tough crowd. Do you buy any insurance?

Probably more than you...

 

[akflightmedic]

^^^ This above...fact.

I carry a LOT of insurance, however this is one which is not needed.

 

[akflightmedic]

Whew...just added up everything. I spend in excess of 50K annually on various personal insurance plans. My businesses far exceed that.

But I do know HPSO will not be one of them ever and keeping it all relative, they are ripping off hard working, lower paid EMS workers with fear tactics. And you sir help them in that endeavor by being an educated person with reach (through your publications).

Yes, it is just $100. There are many, many things in life that is just X or just Y. And if it is supported with fact/evidence, I absolutely would support it. My mind can be changed.

How many times do I have to say, the very company who sells the insurance cannot provide an example of it working?

Paramedic sued for Medical Liability Claim and HPSO saved the day or the Paramedic had no insurance and is now garnished every payday.

With all of the fear mongering this should be very easy to prove. (Or is there some broken old man behind the curtain?)

 

[mgr22]

Whew...just added up everything. I spend in excess of 50K annually on various personal insurance plans. My businesses far exceed that.

But I do know HPSO will not be one of them ever and keeping it all relative, they are ripping off hard working, lower paid EMS workers with fear tactics. And you sir help them in that endeavor by being an educated person with reach (through your publications).

Yes, it is just $100. There are many, many things in life that is just X or just Y. And if it is supported with fact/evidence, I absolutely would support it. My mind can be changed.

How many times do I have to say, the very company who sells the insurance cannot provide an example of it working?

Paramedic sued for Medical Liability Claim and HPSO saved the day or the Paramedic had no insurance and is now garnished every payday.

With all of the fear mongering this should be very easy to prove. (Or is there some broken old man behind the curtain?)

Ok, two questions:

1. How do you decide which insurance to buy?
2. In general -- and I know it's a very broad question -- how do you decide what to spend $100 on?