Death and Dying what is the answer?

[enjoynz]

I've had to do a lot of thinking about death and dying within my family over the past five years.

I'd think I'd be able to handle it better, given my time on the ambulance, dealing with the patient's loved ones, that have just lost their family member.
Although everytime it rears it's ugly head in my life, with someone that is really not ready to die, I understand it no better.

Not even with the Kübler-Ross Model (The Five Stages Of Grief) and other Models, that are handed out for us to study at one of the courses we took to become an ambulance officer.
Sure, you understand a little more the formula of Denial,Anger,Bargaining,Depression, then finally the Acceptance.

Given the medical miracles of model medicine, treatments and procedures for all manner of diseases,conditions and trauma,that a patient would have died from 30 odd years ago.
You'd think we would have sorted out something as simple as little old cancer,something that has been studied to death (pardon the pun) over the years.

We understand what causes cancer a lot better, lifestyle (smoking, sunbathing) or hereditary (genenitic's) or just a case of bad luck for some.
But how do you detect you have cancer early enough, to get the chance to have an effect treatment?
Here in New Zealand they offer free screening for things like cervical and breast cancer.
You can go to your local GP and get them to do a mole map on you, so that should there be a change of size or colour of a mole, they can do something about it.

I really wonder what is hardest to take when a loved one dies?
Is is worse to have someone die suddenly on you or to watch someone dying over a period of time?
I guess some of you would have seen this with your 'Frequent Flyers'.
You get to know them over a period of time, watching them going down hill, seeing them in constant pain, knowing that they are going to die at some stage.
At least the family members would get a chance to say goodbye, let the patient know how much they are loved and will be missed.
Having said this...I think it less painful to know that the person died instantly, not knowing what hit them or ever having to deal with the pain.

It would be nice to get some of your input into this thread....even if you think I'm ranting.
What have been your experiences, both professional and/or personal?

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[DesertMedic66]

Having a death in the family is hard no matter what. For me it's easier if it's over a period of time to take the actual death. So you can help that person get everything arranged. Also people view it as "an end to the suffering". Where as with a sudden death it hit me alot harder because well it was sudden.

 

[akflightmedic]

How one handles a death has nothing to do with the person who died.

It has everything to do with the living's own sense of insecurity about the uncertainty of it all. The dead are already certain.

For me personally, I am quite comfortable with death and not overly sensitive about it, even with family members. What would upset me would be if any of my children were to die before me but other than that, anyone else in my bloodline has already lived, made their choices and their time is up...whatever the cause.

As morbid as it may seem, my funeral plans have been made for years. My instructions are clear about what is to happen when I reach my expiration date.

I guess this is why I try to live up every moment/experience I have and make it as enjoyable as possible for others as well. I spend this life, this moment living by my moral code, doing what I feel is right instead of wasting time on an uncertainty to me. This gives me comfort, fulfillment, joy and a sense of achievement.

Remember, we all start to die from the moment we are born...

 

[abckidsmom]

2 weeks ago, a friend lost her only son, an 18 year old, in a stupid, stupid accident. Last Friday, another friend was diagnosed with cancer...she'd been ignoring symptoms for a long time, and she died yesterday.

It's not easy, regardless. This keeps me going: And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12: 1-2

 

[DesertMedic66]

How one handles a death has nothing to do with the person who died.

It has everything to do with the living's own sense of insecurity about the uncertainty of it all. The dead are already certain.

For me personally, I am quite comfortable with death and not overly sensitive about it, even with family members. What would upset me would be if any of my children were to die before me but other than that, anyone else in my bloodline has already lived, made their choices and their time is up...whatever the cause.

As morbid as it may seem, my funeral plans have been made for years. My instructions are clear about what is to happen when I reach my expiration date.

I guess this is why I try to live up every moment/experience I have and make it as enjoyable as possible for others as well. I spend this life, this moment living by my moral code, doing what I feel is right instead of wasting time on an uncertainty to me. This gives me comfort, fulfillment, joy and a sense of achievement.

Remember, we all start to die from the moment we are born...

Who dies is what makes it hard. John Q. Citizen could die and I wouldn't feel anything. But if its a family member or someone I'm close to then it will have an impact on me. You even said that if your kids pass away before you then that would effect you. In order for something to be dealt with it has to have an impact.
And I am the same. I'm 19 and I have my funeral covered (I'm getting cremated, making it alot easier on family members.)

 

[enjoynz]

Who dies is what makes it hard. John Q. Citizen could die and I wouldn't feel anything. But if its a family member or someone I'm close to then it will have an impact on me. You even said that if your kids pass away before you then that would effect you. In order for something to be dealt with it has to have an impact.
And I am the same. I'm 19 and I have my funeral covered (I'm getting cremated, making it alot easier on family members.)

I have felt for every one of the patients I've come across that have died, more so the younger ones, with their lives ahead of them.
Does that mean I was too involved or just a caring ambo, I don't know.
I guess the whole reason I wrote this thread was for me to try and come to grips with life and death and just why!
Why.... some folk that don't deserve to be dealt a bad hand, get it anyway.

Those of you that have been on this site for a few years would have been around when I wrote the thread about losing my nephew aged 16 and his sister aged 19, within 4 months of each other.
This came 10 years after their old sister aged 13 at the time, had a cardiac arrest and died.
For those of you who are new to the site............
The Cardiologists still don't know what caused their deaths, at first they thought it was LQTS, and then they thought it was ARVC,
although they are still uncertain as to the cause of deaths, other than to say it was cardiac related.

The last two siblings in my brother's family (they had 5 children) had difib’s implanted early the following year.
At the last two difib checks, one of those niece's has had her difib go off twice, so thankfully she had the implant, otherwise who knows.

It was very hard to bare, going through those 3 funerals with my brother, and also attending my father-in-law's funeral that same year as the last two died (he died of cancer, 3 months after being diagnosed).
...Now this same brother who lost his kids, aged 56, has been dealt another cruel hand...he has been diagnosed with melanoma cancer, in his lung, spine, neck and brain. They have done all they can for him with regards to treatment and are now sending him home to die, basically.

It just goes to show how little we really know in medicine...people look up to medical workers, for the answers.
Every time you pull up in the ambulance to attend a patient or the patient walks through those ER doors
...the family and friends are hoping that you can relieve their fears.
Hoping some rabbit can be pulled from the hat and all in the world will be righted again.
I have to admit it use to scare me somewhat at times, that expectation they hold as you walk through the door, to some poor devil lying there as blue as the sea.
Sorry if I'm now scaring off all the newbiesh34r:.

I've got the plans for my funeral sorted and a will written..I'd hate to have my daughter's fighting over who gets what, as happens in many families, when a loved one dies.
It's funny, but when I was young I always thought that 50 was old...now as I'm nearing that age myself...it is far too young to die!
...then again, I look at my mother who will be 90 in 2 weeks time. Is she old...I guess... at what age would you say...someone as had enough life?
Not a question we as medical folk, have any right to answer!

Food for thought.

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[DesertMedic66]

The thing that has helped me is when I first joined the fire department at 14. A firefighter that was one of my role models told me "we don't cause the problem. We are just there to try to help other people with the problems they are facing." there is no set time on how long we live. People don't have expiration dates printed on us.

 

[mycrofft]

I don't think one can generalize much.

Different people will be bothered more by certain aspects of end-of-life than other aspects. Certain people will want others to feel more,or less, as they do about each death. Some folks will scream, drop to the floor, etc., while others will act as though they didn't hear, or immediately immerse themselves in planning what has to be done next, or even phoning a lawyer to sue SOMEONE. "Different people" includes people who work with other people in times of illness and death.

If you are uncomfortable with death, then you will continue to be, probably, unless you can adopt some panacaeic solution, such as the "they had a full life" deal, or a religious belief, or the feeling that death just is something we all undergo eventually.

If you are personally afraid of "Death", and you identify with people who are dying, then you will be afraid every time you must deal with it.

As an example, my personal problem is that I cannot usually muster the appropriate degree of visible and verbal mourning, so people think I'm cold..maybe I am. But that is how it is for me, and that is what I have to contend with every time.

I will be afraid when it is my time, I will miss those who go before me, but being afraid of being afraid or of feeling sad only makes it worse, like being afraid of pain makes it worse.

 

[akflightmedic]

Who dies is what makes it hard. John Q. Citizen could die and I wouldn't feel anything. But if its a family member or someone I'm close to then it will have an impact on me. You even said that if your kids pass away before you then that would effect you. In order for something to be dealt with it has to have an impact.

Of course it would impact me as that is evolutionary/biological response. If my kids die before me, then I see my line not being carried on...my genes are lost. That is a no-no for survival so it would have a huge effect on me.

I think seeing the hurt on those which are still living is what would upset me the most.

 

[cruiseforever]

Give me sudden death every time. Nothing worse than watching someone waste away. One should live their life were there would be no regrets if something should happen to a friend or family. But that is much easier said than done.

When it comes to myself, I hope I have the big one and there is no one around to push on my chest. Or if I start to lose my mind. I can take a pill and just go to sleep and never wake up. We treat our pets with more respect when they are diagnosed with a terminal condition.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Give me sudden death every time. Nothing worse than watching someone waste away. One should live their life were there would be no regrets if something should happen to a friend or family. But that is much easier said than done.

When it comes to myself, I hope I have the big one and there is no one around to push on my chest. Or if I start to lose my mind. I can take a pill and just go to sleep and never wake up. We treat our pets with more respect when they are diagnosed with a terminal condition.

If you don't want anyone to push on your chest then you should get a DNR or the new version (POLSK) I forgot how to spell it at the moment :wacko:

 

[firetender]

I guess the whole reason I wrote this thread was for me to try and come to grips with life and death and just why!
Why.... some folk that don't deserve to be dealt a bad hand, get it anyway.

First, enjoynz, I want to acknowledge the depth of your personal losses these past few years. It is clear that you have been on a roller-coaster with pauses feeling like, "Damn, I'm glad THAT'S finally over!" followed immediately by searing plunges into despair.

There's no getting out of this one; it's ALL very personal for you right now. So much so that's it's probably tough to step back and at take a closer look at LIFE.

But this go around, it's looking at life as defined by death. And death comes in many, many LITTLE forms as well. Unfortunately, many of these are about pain and suffering WITHOUT the relief of death.

Perhaps you will come to the place of appreciating how, by facing so many aspects of death you have led an enriched life. Contradictory and maybe a little nuts, I know, but think about this:

None of us are going to be here very long under ANY circumstances. It's a short trip, period! What's worse, 300 years from now none of US will even be a distant memory.

But we get to create amazing stuff with the life we've been given while we're here. We get to take raw materials of every kind (including emotions) and mold and tweak them into something new. If we're lucky, we shape our explorations and creations into something useful to others.

For starters, I really respect what you're doing; putting it all out on the table. I also catch that, in part, you're offering this as a service because, though you haven't said it, you're implying something I've written about here before:

We, each of us in EMS or after having left EMS, must at some point face and come to terms with our own, personal, relationship with death.

So, thanks!

 

[zmedic]

I've had to do a lot of thinking about death and dying within my family over the past five years.

Given the medical miracles of model medicine, treatments and procedures for all manner of diseases,conditions and trauma,that a patient would have died from 30 odd years ago.
You'd think we would have sorted out something as simple as little old cancer,something that has been studied to death (pardon the pun) over the years.

We understand what causes cancer a lot better, lifestyle (smoking, sunbathing) or hereditary (genenitic's) or just a case of bad luck for some.
But how do you detect you have cancer early enough, to get the chance to have an effect treatment?
Here in New Zealand they offer free screening for things like cervical and breast cancer.
You can go to your local GP and get them to do a mole map on you, so that should there be a change of size or colour of a mole, they can do something about it.

Cheers Enjoynz

So here's the deal with cancer. It's our own cells gone haywire. Often it is simply them growing faster than they should. They often don't excrete chemicals that can be detected, and don't cause symptoms until they are big and growing into other structures. By that point they are hard to treat. Why are they hard to treat? Because they are our own cells, so many of the cellular processes that you can target will also kill your normal cells (that's why chemotherapy sucks)

Some day we may have more super specific therapies that use unique receptors to target cancer cells, and clearly we should keep trying to improve our treatment of cancer. But it's a long, slow battle because at the end of the day, it's our own cells.

 

[enjoynz]

Well I've learnt something new this week, something I never thought that I'd ever think or feel, having been on the ambulance, where you prime goal is to preserve life.

The will to want the patient lying before you to die, and die quickly!


I was phoned to fly up urgently to see my brother, as he was going down hill very fast.
When I got to the house (he had been returned home from the hospital that morning, with a morphine infusion only, for pain relief) he was lying in a easy chair.
His wife told me he had walked from the ambulance into the house and up to his bedroom. He didn't want to be seen being wheeled in on a portable chair.
That was the last time he walked!
He was voice responsive and would open his eyes when you spoke to him and would nod his head, to answer questions (he had thrush in his mouth from the radiotherapy and couldn't speak).

I got to tell him I was there for him and that I loved him dearly.

It took him two days after that to die, I spent most of it by his bedside.
It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, watching him take each breath with such effort because of the mucus build up from the pneumonia.
All I could do was try to cool his head with a flannel when his temp was spiking.
His wife and I kept on telling him it was ok to go, all his work was done in this world, his children that had past on already were calling him.
He fought to his last breath though...a true FF.
We had a great sence of peace once he was gone, knowing he had no more pain.

At his funeral, he had a Firefighters guard of honour from the last four members still left at his station, that had worked with him.
He had given up the Force when his first daughter died, to spend more time with his family.
He had already given the Fire Service 13 good years as a vollie, and was well respected in the community.

R.I.P. brother...you are now at rest!

Enjoynz

 

[firetender]

Sigh...

Sometimes people get called and the ones remaining get a reminder; we're all on the same line.

I'm happy to hear that you were a part of your Brother's death, that you participated until the very end. Life and death DO meet at times, if we're brave enough to see it through. Someday, this will have turned from a lesson into a tool.

Blessings to you all!