Credit score

18G

Paramedic
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Why should they not be overlooked--because they had kids or made poor financial decisions and now it is up to me--a private business owner who risked everything to start up an operation and struggles to survive once open---and now it is MY issue to take on extra expense for others situations when I have an equally qualified candidate who has none of those issues??

Remember I am a liberal but where does the kindness cease? You keep relating this to one employee but let us increase it. What if it is half my staff, what if it is 75% of my staff. How much time am I exerting now for those with these issues? How much is it costing me? Now I have to implement tracking systems and more accounting procedures. What about when there are issues with the government agency I am mailing to? Now I spend more time fixing those issues too? Then I have the employee calling or visiting and wasting more time as well...it all compounds.

And again, I stated if I have 2 equally qualified candidates, financial concerns will be a factor.

I have been dirt poor and I have suffered through several sudden job losses. I worked hard to put together my business and I going to do what it takes to ensure it survives as that is an obligation to my family first, employees second. And it is along those lines that I have to be selective about who comes along next as it takes away from those who have already been there.

Every business has their own values statement and it comes down to the people at the top I think. I understand the difference between two employees and 50 who pay child support or have some other garnishment and the extra workload that can create with record keeping and accountability. I get that.

Perhaps my own life experiences have caused me to be more open and understanding and willing to take on extra tasks to accommodate someone who pays child support or has other obligations because I've been there. And maybe as part of a business plan, making these accommodations would be a part of it and anticipated given the workforce out there today and not wanting to limit my access to the pool of talented and hard working people or to discriminate and continue the hardship of others by denying employment.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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There is a subtle tone there that I am lacking in the values department which I am not too appreciative of, however again you are speaking about employees and I am focusing on pre-hires.

My personal situation has greatly shaped who I am and how I operate as well which is why I have to take precautions and factor in things which I never even considered previously as an employee.

Start up a business and see how long your graciousness benefits your operation. You do make concessions here and there and I have and promote a very friendly and accommodating employee environment but this discussion has been on credit reports affecting employment and yes it is and absolutely should be a factor in some employment decisions.

If I bend over for every employee I will soon have no business to speak of. Your perceptions are quite naive and simplistic. In my fantasy world I would wish everything was peaches and cream like you want it to be, but this is reality.


Edit: Also when you submit your business plan for loans from the bank or investors...see how much you get when you share the extras you are throwing in to accommodate possible future employees who have it rough. This is exactly the mentality they want to see when deciding if they give you dollars or not (sarcasm). And no you cannot hide the costs in other areas.
 
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18G

Paramedic
1,368
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38
There is a subtle tone there that I am lacking in the values department which I am not too appreciative of, however again you are speaking about employees and I am focusing on pre-hires.

My personal situation has greatly shaped who I am and how I operate as well which is why I have to take precautions and factor in things which I never even considered previously as an employee.

Start up a business and see how long your graciousness benefits your operation. You do make concessions here and there and I have and promote a very friendly and accommodating employee environment but this discussion has been on credit reports affecting employment and yes it is and absolutely should be a factor in some employment decisions.

If I bend over for every employee I will soon have no business to speak of. Your perceptions are quite naive and simplistic. In my fantasy world I would wish everything was peaches and cream like you want it to be, but this is reality.


Edit: Also when you submit your business plan for loans from the bank or investors...see how much you get when you share the extras you are throwing in to accommodate possible future employees who have it rough. This is exactly the mentality they want to see when deciding if they give you dollars or not (sarcasm). And no you cannot hide the costs in other areas.

I've been on the other side and know first hand that a low credit score or an order to pay child support does not ultimately determine the quality of care, a person's character, motivation, professionalism, or any other quality traits.

Granted, a credit score may not be the sole determining factor but it sounds like a lot of weight is given to it when used and some people have given examples of how others were actually disqualified based on credit score.

Say someone took a hit with their health and had no insurance... and now the credit sucks. This person should be denied a job?

Employer's who use credit scores just enable a downward spiral.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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Employer's who use credit scores just enable a downward spiral.

And therein lies the problem....why is it the responsibility or burden of the employer to "save" anyone? The employer did not put them in that position but now it is their fault for taking a pass?

I lessen my risk and my burden yet you want to lay the guilt at my door that I am enabling their downward spiral. Are you Catholic?
 

18G

Paramedic
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And therein lies the problem....why is it the responsibility or burden of the employer to "save" anyone? The employer did not put them in that position but now it is their fault for taking a pass?

I lessen my risk and my burden yet you want to lay the guilt at my door that I am enabling their downward spiral. Are you Catholic?

Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating. I'm not placing total blame on the employers but it's not as simple as your making it sound either.

I'm sure your aware of the high unemployment rate in the US and the difficulty people are having with getting jobs. The economy isn't a problem created by the person handing in the job application. So yes, many people are victims and employers need to play a part.
 
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akflightmedic

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Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating. I'm not placing total blame on the employers but it's not as simple as your making it sound either.

I'm sure your aware of the high unemployment rate in the US and the difficulty people are having with getting jobs. The economy isn't a problem created by the person handing in the job application. So yes, many people are victims and employers need to play a part.

And if an employer is still hiring someone...only using a credit rating to choose between the two, how is he not positively impacting the employment rate? Your comment makes no sense...someone is still getting hired.

And the problem is not created by the person receiving the application either as they are trying to put someone to work. Again a non sequitor and fallacy in your logic.

For the record, as evil sounding as you have tried to make my hypothetical credit report hiring practices sound....the reality is I have created 26 full time positions and am adding more every month in addition to having a long roster of per diem staff as well. :)
 

akflightmedic

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Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating.

And again, how is this my problem as the prospective new employer? You had a bad employer, you got shafted and it screwed your bills...why does it become MY problem to overlook your credit issues when deciding who I want to hire for my business.

I am still hiring someone...I am doing my part and statistically I am reducing my risk. Why does your problem become mine especially if I have two identical candidates and I choose the one who has a better credit report?
 
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18G

Paramedic
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And if an employer is still hiring someone...only using a credit rating to choose between the two, how is he not positively impacting the employment rate? Your comment makes no sense...someone is still getting hired.

My comment does make sense and I know others agree as well. It's been written and spoken about in the news media. People who are affected by this economy and receive bad credit ratings by factors outside of their control are having a difficult time getting hired sometimes because of employers using credit scores. These people want to work. They are great employees with lots to offer.

The economy caused them to lose their job, lose their good credit rating, and now an employer won't give them a job? So now we have more people on unemployment, medicaid, and food assistance, and more people who are losing their homes, adding stress to the government and economy. This creates burdens that trickle down to the employer and eventually will become the employer's problem. What happens when people can't afford a company's services because nobody will hire them and give them a paycheck?

The scenario you pose above is assuming you have two candidates with opposing credit scores.... that is one with a bad report and one with a good report. In this economy what if you have five candidates and all have bad credit scores? Or the best qualified and highly recommended person has the bad credit score yet the four other goof balls have pretty good credit scores? Then what?

Why not evaluate based on skill, knowledge, experience, recommendations, references, and employment history? You can't tell if someone would make a good employee by using all this criteria? Is a credit score really an indicator of performance, knowledge, experience, commitment, and leadership?

There are way too many factors involved with credit scoring to use it as a reflector of an individual.

This is just my opinion and I do commend you for building what sounds like a successful business. So congratulations on that.
 
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akflightmedic

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But now you are further changing the scenario to endorse your opinion that using a credit score is bad juju.

Every time I reason away your problem with logic, you change the rules of the game. Ok, so now I have 5 candidates with the exact same 500 credit score. They are all equal in experience and qualification and all have excellent references and impeccable job histories--that is until they were all fired on the exact same day due to a business failure.

The hiring will now come down to profiling. Do I prefer a female or male, do they have accents, do they smell, are they too fat, are they too skinny, did they have a rough night and look a little tired today. All superficial stuff which we have beat up in other threads but if we level the playing field, not everyone still gets to play. It does not work that way.

I would probably broaden my search and re advertise until I found the candidate that I want in my organization. It is my right as a business owner and as stated before, someone is going to be hired...so your list of the person falling to the wayside and becoming a heavier burden on society is invalid because the person I employ could just as easily be that person too.

A body is being hired. One less in the soup line. I happen to choose the less riskier of the two, three, four or five....any number you want but it is my responsibility to myself, my business and my employees.
 
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firetender

Community Leader Emeritus
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Practicality

If I do a credit chack (as an employer) and I see you have the potential to have the wages I pay you garnished, then, no thanks, I'll take the guy who complicates my business the least.
 

ParamedicLuvnNurse

Forum Ride Along
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Just because someone has a lower than stellar credit score doesn't mean they weren't taking care of their financial responsibilities. Things happen out of people's control that can affect their financial stability such as losing a job, having a medical emergency, a family death that you had to pay 100% of the funeral costs, etc. Things just happen, period. This should not reflect how a person will provide care for a patient, how they will handle a companies equipment, etc.

Times are hard and a lot of good people have poor credit these days. I'm sure they didn't go out saying, "Hey I don't want to pay my bills anymore so I'll happily take a 400 credit score".
 

AlphaButch

Forum Lieutenant
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As a person, I understand that things happen that may be out of a person's control in relation to their credit report (it's happened to me).

As an employer, I'm with firetender and akflightmedic. I will take the least complications. I may allow more leeway in my decision process if the prospect has a skillset I need, or has something else (good recommendations, etc) to offset the probable costs involved. It is not my responsibility to give people jobs.

I normally look at an entire credit report (and don't bother with a score) if a prospect makes it to that point in the hiring process. If it doesn't match with the background check - red flag. If the person is very overextended - red flag. If the person has a whole lot of activity or a lien - red flag. They may be a great provider and a great person, but they have obviously shown that they aren't capable of handling certain things (budgeting, long term planning, etc) which may be required depending on the position.
 

dstevens58

Forum Lieutenant
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I don't care what your credit score is, however.......how you handle your credit is indicative of your responsibility as an individual. If I see someone who purchases high ticket items (car, house, boat), then makes no effort to pay them off, have them repossessed, or declares bankruptcy is indicative of their character.

As a young married couple, we got into some things we were using the credit card that shouldn't be used. We didn't get in deep over our heads, but once we dug ourselves out......we kept out. Never charge more than what you can afford to pay off in full within the month (or two at the most).

Wise financial management indicates some strength of character. And yes, it takes a lot of work to maintain my expenses and living within my means.
 

dstevens58

Forum Lieutenant
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Wise financial management indicates some strength of character. And yes, it takes a lot of work to maintain my expenses and living within my means.

That's not to say that a devastating event can happen, death, job loss, etc, but be prepared to be asked about it and what you're doing or planning on doing to fix things. I listen to honest and sincere answers and can pretty much just your responses on how you handle adversity and challenges.
 

atropine

Forum Captain
496
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That's not to say that a devastating event can happen, death, job loss, etc, but be prepared to be asked about it and what you're doing or planning on doing to fix things. I listen to honest and sincere answers and can pretty much just your responses on how you handle adversity and challenges.

I totally agree with this, I know when the city places applicants into backgrounds they are going to be case by case. Credit scores are there for a reason, just as personality assesments are sometimes part of the recruiting process, and if you don't like it be my guest and work for joe blow ambulance company, but if you want lucrative pension . salary and benifits then you got to meet all the requirements an agency requires.
 
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