CRAZY call i went on

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Hey everyone, I am brand new to this board and was reading through this thread. Many people were talking about EMT-B's not being able to run IV's. Im in Mass and while we cannot here, I am fairly certain EMT-B's CAN run lines in New Hampshire. I think its just up to your state or location.
 
and fyi most medic mills are nremt accredited, if you can read a protocol book and do the skills then you are a good medic in my book. we have doctors for dx and stuff.

First, NREMT doesn't accrediate ANYONE. They are a testing agency, nothing more, nothing less.

Second, you think that if you can read a protocol book, you're fine, yet YOU obviously can't read a protocol book... or atleast follow it correctly.

i had high-flow o2 and trendelenburg, so i was correcting it, thx.

Oh my bad, I must have missed the part of my 2 year education that explained high-flow O2 was able to correct hypotension. And PS-- trendelenburg doesn't help much, if it all. Less than 250ml of fluid is moved last I checked.


for the record i did the king after i gave it a spin with a normal et tube (fire medic let me). he told me to take it out and try the king even though it was a good esophageol intubation (his words, not mine). even basics can do this als stuff its no big deal, as long as you have a medic watching you and you want the best for your pateints.

Sorry, no, a Paramedic is generally not able to delegate ALS tasks to BLS providers. My partner tried pulling that crap on me before saying that since he had his ACLS card he can do ACLS stuff if I let him... that didn't fly well with me.


cant do it in cali. i may start ivs and other stuff but scope of practice is serious, i don't screw around with it.

So... an IV, which is out of your scope and is way more invasive even if you don't give anything, is allowed, but poking a finger with a tiny needle to test blood glucose to help with your DDX is not? I knew Cali was odd but wow.


you know what, forget it. all i wanted was answers as to why my pt passed out and you guys freaked. i'll talk about this call with a medic some other time.


Honestly, no way to tell what happened without a full ALS assessment with ALS gear by an educated provider. "He just totally passed out" doesn't really guide us down any road of what it could be. Heck, even with a full assessment by someone with alot more education, we still might not get the proper DX. There are thousands of disease processes that can cause syncope / coma / unconsciousness / lethargy / sleep.
 
Hey everyone, I am brand new to this board and was reading through this thread. Many people were talking about EMT-B's not being able to run IV's. Im in Mass and while we cannot here, I am fairly certain EMT-B's CAN run lines in New Hampshire. I think its just up to your state or location.

No crap. There are several states that allow EMTs to run IVs. That doesn't make it even remotely ok to start an IV when it is out of your scope for your state, your protocols and your training.
 
Why isn't this in the "EMS Humor" forum? ;)
 
I changed my mind. Might as well get my opinion in with everyone else, but I'll be nice about it.

ff's should touch patients, thats why the US is moving towards fire-based ems, because its just better that way. we can extricate, decontaminate, and do ems at the same time.

First I've heard. Private companies are doing pretty well around here.

and fyi most medic mills are nremt accredited, if you can read a protocol book and do the skills then you are a good medic in my book. we have doctors for dx and stuff.

Linuss already addressed the NREMT's role. Good Medics are a lot more than cookbook medicine. If we want to settle for following protocol and doing the same set of skills, how are we supposed to further the profession?

All I've heard about California EMS is that it's pretty scattered when it comes to scope of practice. How many drugs can your Medics give? Around 50 or so? Do you really think they should be pushing the drugs because they were told to do so, or would you want them to know why they're using them in the first place?

you know what, forget it. all i wanted was answers as to why my pt passed out and you guys freaked. i'll talk about this call with a medic some other time.

Your talking about it with some Medics now (myself not included...yet). We can't tell you because you didn't give us enough information. All we have to go off of is a a BP that might not even be close to begin with. We don't even have a previous set of vitals to notice a trend. Just a tidbit: 100/56 is a generally a sufficient MAP.

Somebody already pointed out that "Hey! It's a dialysis patient!" It's pretty well known that they can be unstable. Can you tell us what kind of dialysis patient he is? Can you tell us why he was receiving dialysis? Can you tell us what dialysis is?

By your earlier reasoning, you shouldn't have to. We should just follow protocol, right?

But...protocol? Isn't it protocol to follow your scope of practice? Isn't it protocol to have a set of vitals to compare these findings to?

I'll leave for now with one last question: Could you please define Blood Pressure?
 
No crap. There are several states that allow EMTs to run IVs. That doesn't make it even remotely ok to start an IV when it is out of your scope for your state, your protocols and your training.

I 100% agree with you. I was just saying it isnt out of every basic's scope. I dont know where that guy lives or what his scope is. I was just saying I saw a few people saying they dont recall basic's being able to run lines.
 
well yea in hindsight it was a bad move, but it was an intense situation and i just wanted 2 asess the pt and find out what was goin on...

If this situation was so intense for you that you couldn't be bothered to actually check the blood pressure, you need to strongly consider if you should keep doing this. If things get "intense" you need to be able to actually assess the patient properly, not do it 1/2 way because you are freaked out.

no just got access, i'm a team player and i want 2 make things easier for the ER ppl. (nurses usually dont know anything anyway! lol)

Um, I wouldn't make fun of nurses when you didn't even do a proper blood pressure. Being a team player does not mean practicing out of your scope.

well he has hypertention so it was low for him

As was pointed out many people with hypertension have a normal BP while on medications. As I also said before, it is quite normal for people to have a BP in the lower end of normal after a dialysis treatment.


like i said the guy has HYPTERTENTION... so it's low for HIM... And it was an intense situation i should have listened w/ the steth but i didnt, wont happen again.

Did you ask the dialysis nurse what is normal for this patient after his treatments? If you didn't then you have no idea what is normal for him and what isn't.

i did the IV cuz i'm a team player. i know its not in my scope but i practiced for years when i vollied in the ER, using those cool plastic arms... and i didn't run fluids i just got access, i know what i'm doing, i just want the best for my pts. i even intubated with a king once so i know what i'm doing.

That isn't being a team player, that is being a cowboy. If it isn't in your scope there is no reason you should be doing it, no matter how much you think you know. The best thing you could have done to be a team player was do a through assessment with accurate vitals so the ER would have a baseline.


im NOT a liability, im an EMT who CARES. besides i'm just doing this till i can get a job w/ the fire department and become a fire medic, so w/e.

Sorry, but yes you are. If you are willing to do things 1/2 way and step out of your scope on a whim you are a liability to both your patients and your employer. EMT Bs are a dime a dozen in Cali right now. Do you really think your employer wouldn't consider firing you over this?

ff's should touch patients, thats why the US is moving towards fire-based ems, because its just better that way. we can extricate, decontaminate, and do ems at the same time. and fyi most medic mills are nremt accredited, if you can read a protocol book and do the skills then you are a good medic in my book. we have doctors for dx and stuff.

Plenty of areas manage to use a private or 3rd service without the world ending. Plenty of other FDs manage to pretend to do EMS to keep their budgets.

If all you can do is read a protocol book and do the skills you are a trained monkey, not a medic. Until you realize that yes, we do diagnose you should hold off on medic school.

i had high-flow o2 and trendelenburg, so i was correcting it, thx.

High flow O2 fixes "hypotension"? How? Also, Trendelenburg has also been proven to be useless, as the body compensates for the change in position rather quickly.


for the record i did the king after i gave it a spin with a normal et tube (fire medic let me). he told me to take it out and try the king even though it was a good esophageol intubation (his words, not mine). even basics can do this als stuff its no big deal, as long as you have a medic watching you and you want the best for your pateints.

This is seriously scary. Especially because there is no such thing as a "good esophageal intubation"

cant do it in cali. i may start ivs and other stuff but scope of practice is serious, i don't screw around with it.

Oh, Ok, I get it. It is ok to do IVs outside of your scope, but not a blood sugar. How did you decide to draw the line there?

you know what, forget it. all i wanted was answers as to why my pt passed out and you guys freaked. i'll talk about this call with a medic some other time.

I wouldn't mention it to anyone you know in person if you want to keep your job. We all "freaked" because you were negligent, stepped out of your scope and you don't seem to understand why it is a big deal.

Use this as a learning opportunity. Assess your patients properly, don't do anything out side of your scope, no matter what medic lets you; and learn what is normal for your patients, even if they are just 'boring' IFT patients.
 
ok i saw the definition of a troll and i am NOT one... so stop saying that.


like i said the guy has HYPTERTENTION... so it's low for HIM... And it was an intense situation i should have listened w/ the steth but i didnt, wont happen again.

i did the IV cuz i'm a team player. i know its not in my scope but i practiced for years when i vollied in the ER, using those cool plastic arms... and i didn't run fluids i just got access, i know what i'm doing, i just want the best for my pts. i even intubated with a king once so i know what i'm doing.


im NOT a liability, im an EMT who CARES. besides i'm just doing this till i can get a job w/ the fire department and become a fire medic, so w/e.

Ok, I know we're way past this point (at least I suspect, I haven't read all the posts) but I need to address it.

You cannot possibly be serious? What you did was negligent and in no way conducive with proper patient care. Just because you did it to make things easier for the ED staff does not excuse the fact that it is a skill that you are NOT supposed to perform, not to mention that starting IV's on a real person isn't the same as on the IV arms.

Btw, just because you "intubated" someone once with a King doesn't mean you know what you're doing, quite honestly, Ray Charles could probably drop a King without a problem, just sayin...

EDIT: Oh yes, and if you want to become a medic, then you better change your attitude, because if you can't buckle down and do a THOROUGH assessment and practice good BLS care first, then there's absolutely no way that you'll make it through medic school.
 
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Yep, we're moving every day towards a profession... :rolleyes:
 
Well, on the upside usalsfyre no one is defending him. That has to make you at least a tad hopeful. :P
 
Hey all,

I seriosly doubt the seriousness of this post.

The OP has for part of their name 420 which while possibly a birthday, I somehow imagine it has a more street based meaning.

There is clearly an inflammatory remark on how great the fire service is.

Then on top of it all, there is an admission of an illegal activity. (practicing medicine without a license)

Even if this post is sincere, and by some miracle this person gets picked p by an FD. That probationary year is a rather long for the freelancers not to wash out.

I would hazard a guess, that if this is the normal way this person operates his/her FD career is going to be rather short if it gets started at all.
 
Plus if on the off chance it was a serious post, he's unlikely to come back under the same name.
 
I'd like to thank everyone that has commented on here...as a student, alot of this is new stuff to me, and I knew that none of this seemed legitimate, so even though we've got people out there trying to screw up the PROFESSION, there are several more who are out to protect it. Thanks
 
And that's a perfect way to end this thread.
 
How can any of you think the OP is legit?

I know Cali EMS is "different"... but c'mon.
 
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