Can you safely draw saline from the IV tubing port?

usalsfyre said:
Yeah, not in any way acceptable and frankly very lazy. A bags a buck fifty, so it's not about cost.
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So it would be safe to assume that the 2nd patient was exposed to the 1st patient's bodily fluids? Yikes, i feel horrible for witnessing this.
 
WTEngel said:
While I do not think there is a high likelihood that this caused any harm to either patient, this is certainly not best practice.

I can almost certainly promise that if this happened in a hospital or any service I have ever worked for the person would have been written up at least, and very likely fired.

What a sloppy, un-educated, haphazard way to operate.
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That's putting it mildly, IMHO. Just to clarify an earlier point, while I did state that it's generally safe, I did NOT state that I condone the practice. I think that practice is one that should NEVER be done outside some seriously exigent circumstances. Normally, I would NEVER draw fluids from a line to flush another patient's line.
 
Beaux said:
So it would be safe to assume that the 2nd patient was exposed to the 1st patient's bodily fluids? Yikes, i feel horrible for witnessing this.
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I wouldn't say the 2nd patient was exposed... just potentially (remotely so, but still) exposed to the 1st patient's blood.
 
Parse.

It's wrong, they are single pt-use bags and tubing. No sophistry, it's wrong, and the pt stands to lose more than you do.
 
Why aren't we simply pulling from the medication port on the IV bag instead of the actual IV tubing? Still not the best of ideas, but assuming that the drip chamber isn't completely full, then there should be next to no risk of cross contamination.
 
JPINV, risk ought to be zero above the drip.

If you are running out of or don't have the little Saline vials, then you need to look to other shortfalls in your rig's stock as well, and your checkout procedure.
 
^
I thought that went without saying...
 
Tried to respond several times, but was on the highway through BFE in Mississippi. Yes some areas are more rural than others. But, uh uh. Completely unacceptable. Goes into cross contamination. You do NOT use one pt's IV bag to flush another pt's line. Unconscionable.
 
Our company does not supply flushes, we have to get them from the hospitals.
 
the_negro_puppy said:
Disgusting.
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I've also been hearing they're going to stop supplying blood draw tubes as well. Even though certain protocols say to obtain blood if you have a line.
 
WTEngel said:
While I do not think there is a high likelihood that this caused any harm to either patient, this is certainly not best practice.

I can almost certainly promise that if this happened in a hospital or any service I have ever worked for the person would have been written up at least, and very likely fired.

What a sloppy, un-educated, haphazard way to operate.
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This. It's extremely hard to imagine a situation where it would be necessary to do this, and it smacks of being too lazy to open the cupboard / drug box and grab another source of saline.

I would have a frank and unpleasant discussion with anyone I saw or heard of doing this.
 
I did it just a couple of weeks ago to draw up a 20 ml flush for adenosine. Our prefilled saline syringes are only 3 ml. I'm surprised by the harsh reaction. We used the appropriate aseptic technique. Throughout my career I've seen it many times in many settings (in and out of the hospital, ground transport, flight team). Is there a different procedure for drawing it out of a large vial? Or do you think connecting a syringe to an IV port is inherently unsafe?

Tom
 
TomB, I assume you were using it on the same patient though. The OP describes drawing off the line of patient one to flush patient two's IV.
 
TomB said:
I did it just a couple of weeks ago to draw up a 20 ml flush for adenosine. Our prefilled saline syringes are only 3 ml. I'm surprised by the harsh reaction. We used the appropriate aseptic technique. Throughout my career I've seen it many times in many settings (in and out of the hospital, ground transport, flight team). Is there a different procedure for drawing it out of a large vial? Or do you think connecting a syringe to an IV port is inherently unsafe?

Tom
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Done that myself several times of drawing up a narc or a sedative in a 10cc syringe then draw saline from the bag to make it a 1:1 or 10:1. However, that's for the same pt and the same pt only.
 
usalsfyre said:
TomB, I assume you were using it on the same patient though. The OP describes drawing off the line of patient one to flush patient two's IV.
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Thanks for the clarification! That I would report as an unsafe practice.

Tom
 
TomB said:
Thanks for the clarification! That I would report as an unsafe practice.

Tom
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In the non-disaster situation presented by the OP... so would I. Under any sort of normal circumstances, even though the risk to the 2nd patient is low, I would NEVER do that and the risk, as low as it would be, is too high.

I would MUCH rather draw from a second bag that's not connected to ANYTHING than draw from a line that's connected to another patient.
 
guess he couldnt have just used a small saline bag to draw the stuff up with? id much rather crack open a new bag and draw it up from there than to draw it up from someone elses running line
 
WTEngel said:
No, the leur lock tip only serves to keep fluid from leaking out when nothing is attached. Once the tubing is screwed into it, the lock is pushed open and remains open. It has no control over back flow.

Can you imagine if for mass casualty events we had a large saline bag that attached to a single drip chamber with multiple primary tubing lines going to multiple patients? This is about as absurd as what the medic in question did. The more I think about this scenario the more I get irritated. It is things like this that make the rest of the health care community look at EMS like a vocation and not a profession.

The worst part is that you witnessed it on a ride along, and were given the impression that it was ok. For all this guy knows you could go out and do this for the rest of your career...what an absolute disgrace.
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Amen!
 
Beaux said:
If you were to draw saline solution from a an IV line already in use, is there a high risk of contamination? Would the fluid just come from the IV bag? Or could you potentially draw fluids back through the patient's IV?
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No. The vein can be considered to terminate at the end of the IV, be it a saline lock or an IV bag. Since we don't run lines to atmosphere, an in-use line is the vein. I wouldn't mind using it to flush the SAME patient, but not another.
 
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