Calling death in the field

[Ridryder911]

Why? If you’re that incompetent not to know what lividity, rigor mortis is then you don't need a monitor to help you out, you need a new career!

I feel very competent and l'm in the right career.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using any and all tools at my disposal to determine whether I'm going to call someone in the field. I will definitely have the documentation to back up my decision should anyone question it.

Lawyer: "Mr Medic, why didn't to try to revive the patient?"
Medic: "Because he was dead."
Lawyer: "How do you know he was dead?"
Medic: "Because I said so. I'm very competent!"

They are called conclussive signs for a reason. If one does not understand that, then no monitors in the world will help them out in court.

Yes kidding because no reason to need a strip if decapitated, rigor, lividity, etc.

I thought you were....but, just in case for those that may not get it...


R/r 911

 

[Hockey]

Please see this thread

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=13436

 

[medic417]

They are called conclussive signs for a reason. If one does not understand that, then no monitors in the world will help them out in court.



I thought you were....but, just in case for those that may not get it...


R/r 911

Thanks.

A properly documented report describing obvious signs of death holds more water than a strip with asystole that an attorney will show is a workable rhythm according to the standard, which is AHA, leading you to losing in court.

 

[paccookie]

My philosophy is if you have to run an ECG to make the determination, then you should had worked them. No, we do not require or endorse an ECG. Obvious physical signs should be documented to make the determination. If one wants to run an ECG, so be it, but our medical director wants the determination factor be based on conclusive physical signs ..traditional signs i.e. lividity, decapitation, etc.

All deaths (without gross evidence) as well are documented as apical heart beat, with high encouragement of least two medics noting nothing.

R/r 911

I agree with R/R on this.

A couple of shifts ago, we got called to an unresponsive man on a roof. He was working on the roof when he collapsed. The family had not seen him for at least an hour prior to calling EMS. When they finally found him, his face was blue and they could not get on the roof to initiate CPR or check further for responsiveness (he would not answer their calls from the ground). When we arrived, he was lying supine on the roof with his head lower than the rest of his body. He had some lividity in his back and his lower extremities were very pale (the blood had all drained to his head). His hands were stiff and he was beginning to have rigor all over. By the way, the temperature was about 100-105, estimated to be about 120 on the roof. The man was 66 or 67. The family told us not to work him if it didn't look like we could get him back. We were not going to work him anyway. It took about 45 minutes to get him extricated from the roof and moved to the truck. And no, we did not run a strip. We talked about it and decided that it was unnecessary since he had very obvious signs of death. The coroner asked if we ran a strip and said that we should have, but our supervisor agreed that it was unnecessary.