Call me an Idiot...

[chrissyk]

OK, I am an EMT-B student here in the lovely midwest!! Ahh...its always enjoyable here, JK!
I go out to bar with some of my girlfriends to have a drink, a huge fight breaks out outside the bar, a friend of mine who got right in the middle, runs inside and asks me for help... a 21 year old...was unconscious, I of couse run outside to help...I was taught Airway comes first! A nurse comes up screaming 'I'm a nurse' blah, blah, blah. He-was very clearly unconscious (mind you blood is running out from his mouth--nose---the whole bit) he got knocked about 30 times against the curb. She was freaking out, like she had never seen anything like this before. I was as calm and collective as I told her you probably need to turn him over to see if he has an airway and is breathing. She proceeds to scream at me about how you cannot move him because he might have spinal damage, and she checks for a pulse *which she couldn't find* I got a pulse rate for her...as I am about ready to die laughing---she screams at me to get away from him, that I didn't know what I was doing and so forth and so on--anyone have any ideas---did I do wrong, what could I have done different???

 

[Stevo]

ems rule #1 chrissyk

be the calm in the storm , don't add any more windage to it...


~S~

 

[VentMedic]

Everybody in health care has a zone of comfort that is good for them. This includes nurses, RTs, PTs, EMTs and Paramedics. Hopefully people will find the area right for them before they get too far into their careers and frustrated.

I am not referring to you. The nurse probably has not been in many emergency situations where she is the primary provider. If she is hospital based, there are Rapid Response Teams and Code Teams to take charge of emergencies. She probably felt a sense of duty to act but truly lost sight of her skills when her adrenaline started. By probably not doing emergency medicine in her profession, nothing was coming naturally for her. She, too, is probably asking herself the same questions you are and what she could have done differently.

Keep a cool head, learn your assessment skills in Basic.... You sound already like you're on your way for a great career.

 

[Airwaygoddess]

ems rule #1 chrissyk

be the calm in the storm , don't add any more windage to it...


~S~

Well said Stevo!!

 

[EMTBandit]

I think Stevo and VentMedic summed it up pretty nicely. ^_^ Well done Chrissy and you are not an idiot lol. ^_^

 

[hangit]

what could I have done different???

i would've given the nurse a back-hand, but that's just me.h34r: lol, don't sweat it, you knew what the right thing to do was.

 

[Flight-LP]

I would have stayed inside and kept drinking...................

 

[firecoins]

Leave the situation alone. You are allowed to leave the situation in her hands legally. Let her screw it up.

 

[BossyCow]

Not uncommon for nurses to be out of their element when the bleeding/trauma occurs outside a controlled environment. One of the best things EMS does is bring control to chaos. She was 'in charge' due to her certification but out of control due to her emotional state. Sounds like you had two patients.. one trauma, one psych!

 

[firecoins]

scene safety is important. The nurse made the scene unsafe...legally unsafe.

 

[Guardian]

I would have rolled him with cspine precautions and checked for breathing, etc. The nurse was an idiot and/or didn't have any emergency experience. It does worry me you wanted to laugh in that situation. Nothing really funny about someone seriously injured and an idiot nurse.

 

[firecoins]

I would have rolled him with cspine precautions and checked for breathing, etc. The nurse was an idiot and/or didn't have any emergency experience. It does worry me you wanted to laugh in that situation. Nothing really funny about someone seriously injured and an idiot nurse.

It sounds to me that she was both an idiot without emergency medical training.

 

[Luno]

I would have stayed inside and kept drinking...................

I think I'm more of a humanitarian than you are, I would have described to an onlooker how to position recovery, told another to call 911, and ordered another beer, no touch, no care, no abandonment of patient or beer.

 

[firecoins]

I think I'm more of a humanitarian than you are, I would have described to an onlooker how to position recovery, told another to call 911, and ordered another beer, no touch, no care, no abandonment of patient or beer.

with a nurse there, there was no abandonment issue.

 

[Recycled Words]

Meh...it's a personal pet peeve of mine when medical personnel who are unqualified to deal with a situation attempt to do so. I was on the highway with about a week left of my EMT course when there was an accident w/ injuries. I pulled over and this guy showed up acting all self-important. Turned out he was a dermatologist.

Had another issue when I was on scene responding to a possible broken arm and this random guy, a doctor is there assessing her arm, telling us what's going on, didn't seem to have the slightest idea himself. Of course, when offered to have pt care signed over to him, bet you can figure out what his answer was....

 

[firecoins]

When you get a doctor or nurse on scene of an emergency who are clueless but need to be in charge, let them do it. Unless you or a friend are the patient.

 

[FF/EMT Sam]

When you get a doctor or nurse on scene of an emergency who are clueless but need to be in charge, let them do it. Unless you or a friend are the patient.

EMS Rule #17: Until proven otherwise, all doctors on emergency scenes are gynecologists.

EMS Rule #18: The exception to rule #17 is if the patient is in labor, in which case the doctor will invariably be a dermatologist.

 

[Jon]

[rant]Well... first thing that no one seems to have picked up on - How inebrieated were YOU and the Nurse... you were, after all, at a BAR. I'm VERY careful to not wear "Whacker-wear" if I will be consuming ETOh, as I've seen WAYY too many "drunken firemen" helping folks outside the local college bars... some of them are ok... most of them are as drunk, or more drunk than the person who is lying in the gutter vomiting.
[/rant]

I'm all about helping a patient like this, if I can. I would definatly stick to the "Basic first aid" level stuff... avoid trying to do chest decompression, etc

 

[firecoins]

EMS Rule #17: Until proven otherwise, all doctors on emergency scenes are gynecologists.

EMS Rule #18: The exception to rule #17 is if the patient is in labor, in which case the doctor will invariably be a dermatologist.

those were my thoughts exactly. With my luck I end up with a weight loss MD.

 

[Flight-LP]

I think I'm more of a humanitarian than you are, I would have described to an onlooker how to position recovery, told another to call 911, and ordered another beer, no touch, no care, no abandonment of patient or beer.

It has nothing to do with humanity. When I'm off duty, I'm off duty, period! Plus if I've been drinking, I'd want no part of that scene, from both a personal protection standpoint and from a liability standpoint. There is no abandonment, it was never her pt. to begin with. That why we have "on duty" EMS. Let them handle it.

And yea, if my cell battery wasn't low, I might call 911. Depends on how the game on TV is going!

Beer anyone????