Bilingual

[VentMedic]

Well I live north of the SF, and am now seeing Spanish/Mexican being brought in. You choose to come to my country, I ask you learn my language. Lets put it like this, You or anyone here moves to Japan, China,Germany. Do you think they will change the way they speak or do things because you moved there? I wouldn't bet my life on it. So, because someone moves here for a better life or w/e. I have to now change the way I do things, what I have to learn for them? No, thanks. In Germany I can bet you it isnt manditory to know English, likewise Japan,China,Russia,all of Africa, South America, Central America. So, again I ask why? Give me a better reason than just..well it is a majorty vs. Minority. We allow them to not have to try and learn english, just skate on in and we will make sure you are taken care of.

Wow! That is almost a racist statement. You sound just like some of the Ayran Brotherhood I saw in the ED not too long ago in SF for making those same statements. Your attitude is what instigates hate in this country. You are crossing that fine line of hate and intolerance.

Do you not know your California history?

I have little patience for those who are unaccepting of people of different nationalities and cultures. Your attitude probably carries over into the way you treat your patients which is totally unacceptable for any healthcare professional. It is one thing to not want to learn another language but it is another thing to impinge upon the rights of others and to discriminate or just hate because others speak a different language or come from another country.

 

[silver]

Since california, texas, New Mexico, and Arizona were basically owned by Spain and then by Mexico they arent really coming in for the first time...

In addition many of these latinos still keep their native cultural languages like el quecha in the andes (bolivia, el ecuador, y el perú), el chibcha in colombia, el guaraní in el paraguay, In Mexico there are about 80 indigenous languages still spoken, and in guatemala there are like a ridiculous numbers of mayan languages. These native people were all oppressed as well, and even more recently half of them had dictatorships which forbid any indigenous cultures. From what I see, their social movements have really allowed them to revitalize. For instance, they are a large proponent of literacy for the poor, ecological agriculture, sustainability, human rights and so forth.

There is no reason to keep any immigrants down, for in reality we are all in it for "the american dream" (be it what you want)...

 

[VentMedic]

How do some view people from Puerto Rico?

That is a Spanish speaking country.

 

[Shishkabob]

Since california, texas, New Mexico, and Arizona were basically owned by Spain and then by Mexico they arent really coming in for the first time...

In addition many of these latinos still keep their native cultural languages like el quecha in the andes (bolivia, el ecuador, y el perú), el chibcha in colombia, el guaraní in el paraguay, In Mexico there are about 80 indigenous languages still spoken, and in guatemala there are like a ridiculous numbers of mayan languages. These native people were all oppressed as well, and even more recently half of them had dictatorships which forbid any indigenous cultures. From what I see, their social movements have really allowed them to revitalize. For instance, they are a large proponent of literacy for the poor, ecological agriculture, sustainability, human rights and so forth.

There is no reason to keep any immigrants down, for in reality we are all in it for "the american dream" (be it what you want)...

I don't get what the middle paragraph has to do with anything we are saying.


And no one is saying keep the immigrants down... we're saying assimilate.



Is it really THAT wrong toi expect someone moving to another country to make an attempt at learning the language? Be it a Mexican moving here or an American moving to S. Africa... it's just common sense.

 

[silver]

I don't get what the middle paragraph has to do with anything we are saying.


And no one is saying keep the immigrants down... we're saying assimilate.



Is it really THAT wrong toi expect someone moving to another country to make an attempt at learning the language? Be it a Mexican moving here or an American moving to S. Africa... it's just common sense.

assimilation leads to a boring monotonous society...changing of culture should be a natural smooth progression and not forced on people so they lose their true identity. In addition assimilation leads to a lack of diversity.

the middle paragraph is a reference of how U.S. native americans have been forced to assimilate. Im citing how you can fight back and let your language/culture grow.

 

[Shishkabob]

This is where you're just plain wrong.

Assimilation does not mean losing your culture. Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.

Keep your holidays and culture. Keep your language. But learn to live in the new society, and learn the new language as well. That is NOT a nationalistic view, not a racist view, and not a bad view. It makes sense in every bit of the word.




By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.

 

[Sasha]

By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.

Of course we shouldn't, that violates an actual law. As we have no national language and no law dictating what language they are speaking, by speaking only Spanish or German or French they are not violating any law as beating your wife would.

So say they are required to learn English by law, and they're in the process of learning, how do we service those who have not yet got a good enough grasp on the English language? Rome wasn't built in a week, after all.

 

[VentMedic]

This is where you're just plain wrong.

Assimilation does not mean losing your culture. Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.

Keep your holidays and culture. Keep your language. But learn to live in the new society, and learn the new language as well. That is NOT a nationalistic view, not a racist view, and not a bad view. It makes sense in every bit of the word.

By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.

Tolerance and respect are some things you need to understand.

Do we not try to honor the different religions within reason? Where does medicine draw the line for Jehovah's Witnesses?

Respecting the laws of this country does not mean you have to speak the language. Besides, look at how long it took the U.S. to recognize domestic violence was a crime and a major issue. In this country it was also viewed as a "family thing" and not addressed until recently.

 

[silver]

This is where you're just plain wrong.

Assimilation does not mean losing your culture. Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.

Keep your holidays and culture. Keep your language. But learn to live in the new society, and learn the new language as well. That is NOT a nationalistic view, not a racist view, and not a bad view. It makes sense in every bit of the word.




By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.

excuse me I meant to add the words forced in front of assimilate...which is true that a person loses their culture. There should be no reason to force a language or way of life, if they want to prosper they will adapt at the rate they are comfortable with, which may be 1-2 generations or never. Since we have no official language, and the American society is always changing, I see no need to require immigrants to assimilate and they have the freedom not to and I respect their choice.
I also respect the idea that many people don't learn the language/culture because they want to go back home in a couple of years. However its a reality that immigrants don't always get a living wage and can not make it back home and end up staying.

And you are assuming that I dont believe in laws and ethics to protect people.

I want to emphasis "the language," English, is just the norm of the U.S. and not official.

Edit:
Really assimilation does mean losing your culture many times.
For instance in some Islamic countries sharia and beating women is part of culture...

 

[Shishkabob]

Now we're getting into bad territory. I'm sure no one here wants a law stating learn English or go to jail.

Speak any language you want. I do, with 4 of them. But don't force healthcare providers to learn a language if you're not going to tell/ask immigrants to learn English.. The primary and dominant language of this country and every state within. Why the double standard?

 

[VentMedic]

Now we're getting into bad territory. I'm sure no one here wants a law stating learn English or go to jail.

Speak any language you want. I do, with 4 of them. But don't force healthcare providers to learn a language if you're not going to tell/ask immigrants to learn English.. The primary and dominant language of this country and every state within. Why the double standard?

No double standard.
Not everyone chooses to work in a profession directly involving the care of patients of many nationalities.

How many Americans living in other countries actually learn the language of that country? Probably not very many. They also seek out other English speaking residents.

By your summation, Dade County, FL is over 65% Spanish speaking. Should the other 35% be required to speak Spanish? Believe it or not Spanish speaking people can not quality for certain benefits if their language is considered the dominant language in that area.

Did you at least look up the reasons why the U.S. has not made a "law" making English as the formal language? I gave some of the reasons in an earlier post. I also told you what happened in Florida when it did make English as a state language. But, since you have studied other languages, you should also have studied this and enough with the emotional whining.

Do you not understand why the educational systems in this country continues to promote other languages? Maybe if we just eliminate all the language programs, that would force everyone to learn English. But, can you see where there would be a problem with this?

I find it very difficult to believe someone who claims to know so many languages can fail to see any benefit.

 

[Shishkabob]

Vent, for the umpteenth time I never said don't learn otge languages. I never said there was no benefit. I simply said don't force someone to just to keep their job.


The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.

 

[VentMedic]

The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.

He made the choice to move. Those that live there should not have to bow to him and just speak "English". He should have no complaints about any other language spoken if he made the choice to live in an area like Miami for an example. If that job was to require that he be bilingual, then he has no reason to whine about it.

I have no tolerance for the all American white racist attidude that says speak English because you are in this country. It has been this mentality that has kept prejudice alive and well in this country. This thread has gotten a little deeper than just requiring another language for a job. The "live in my country, you better speak my language" attitude is one of intolerance. The nasty prejudices for other nationalities have emerged and for health care professionals in the U.S., that is a sad statement.

 

[Sasha]

Vent, for the umpteenth time I never said don't learn otge languages. I never said there was no benefit. I simply said don't force someone to just to keep their job.


The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.

The one who moves to another city is signing up to help people. Being better at his job may require him to learn a second language, enough to effectively communicate with their patients.

I'm dissapointed that you don't seem to grasp that we adapt to fit our patients, our patients don't adapt to fit us.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

MY OPINION:

CLOSE THE THREAD!!! This has gone from a discussion on "Should a second language be mandatory for EMSers?" to a political and racial argument. The pole speaks for itself. 30% think it is a good idea and 70% do not. Question answered, beliefs stated... all this left is an argument where no one is going to change their political/social beliefs...

 

[Sasha]

This thread is a good debate about the professional development of an EMT/Paramedic, sorry that it isn't about lights and sirens or something you're interested in.

If it bothers you so much, stay off of it, but don't ask for it to be closed while people are still having a civil debate.

They could always move it to the EMS Lounge if they (The moderators) feel it's gotten off the EMS topic.

 

[Shishkabob]

Wow vent. I can't believe you just pulled the racism card. Wow.

Race has absolutley nothing to do with languages. I know of Hispanic orgin that can't speak a lick of Spanish. I also know Hispanic people who speak fluent Spanish learned at home and STILL thinks anyone moving to the US should learn English.



You're also contradicting yourself on "he chose to move so be should speak a foreign language"

Guess what, the immigrant chose to move too, did he not? So why do you exempt him for the language requirement?

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

This thread is a good debate about the professional development of an EMT/Paramedic, sorry that it isn't about lights and sirens or something you're interested in.

If it bothers you so much, stay off of it, but don't ask for it to be closed while people are still having a civil debate.

It stoped being an EMS debate many pages back and turned racial and cultural really quick. No new EMS related arguments are being used, instead it is now about losing your culture, assemilation, immigration, aryan brotherhood, etc... You are the only one still refering to EMS and patients in your thread. Vent, Linuss, silver, etc... are now having an political arguement (in which people are being called racist) and not an EMS debate/discussion. Civil left the room a long time ago...

 

[Sasha]

Again, if you don't like it, stay off it. It's not a totally foreign and hard concept. If the moderators feel that it is not EMS related they have the option to move it to the EMS Lounge to join all the other non-EMS threads.

Asking it to be closed? Uhhh, we're still talking here.

 

[VentMedic]

Wow vent. I can't believe you just pulled the racism card. Wow.

Race has absolutley nothing to do with languages. I know of Hispanic orgin that can't speak a lick of Spanish. I also know Hispanic people who speak fluent Spanish learned at home and STILL thinks anyone moving to the US should learn English.



You're also contradicting yourself on "he chose to move so be should speak a foreign language"

Guess what, the immigrant chose to move too, did he not? So why do you exempt him for the language requirement?

I did not contradict myself.

Your statement:

The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.

If that provider moves to Miami, knowing it is predominantly Spanish speaking, he made the choice. Did this provider ever think the majority of his patients might speak Spanish? Or, is being an EMT(P) just about the provider and the patient is just an inconvenience?

But since you don't read the posts very well, let me repeat why I pulled the "race card".

I have no tolerance for the all American white racist attidude that says speak English because you are in this country. It has been this mentality that has kept prejudice alive and well in this country. This thread has gotten a little deeper than just requiring another language for a job. The "live in my country, you better speak my language" attitude is one of intolerance. The nasty prejudices for other nationalities have emerged and for health care professionals in the U.S., that is a sad statement.

Other healthcare professionals just take learning a little bit of another language in stride because it is part of their degree programs. Some in EMS must complain anytime the word "education" is used. Of course there is no way to require another language for EMS when we can not even require a college level A&P class.