Beards and AMR

[VentMedic]

Could have sworn I already stated that I was fit-tested for an N95 without a problem, and as such there are no infection control issues to speak of...

This was your earlier quote.

Nope. Had to in EMT but not for medic.

Even at my internship at the FD I dint have to as, and I quote the BC "Youre EMS, not fire, you don't have to worry about the scba"

Ditto. Nothing wrong if you pass the test and it's clean.

You stated you have a full beard. Is it exactly the same length everyday? How often are you fit tested? Do you have the same N95 mask available to you at each clinical situation especially at that FD? If not, then there is a problem especially with someone who has a full beard who has not been fitted for the masks they have available.

 

[Sasha]

You didn't have to shave for medic school?

We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<

We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act

Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.

 

[Shishkabob]

This was your earlier quote.





You stated you have a full beard. Is it exactly the same length everyday? How often are you fit tested? Do you have the same N95 mask available to you at each clinical situation especially at that FD? If not, then there is a problem especially with someone who has a full beard who has not been fitted for the masks they have available.

FD said I didn't need to worry about SCBA as I wont be going in to a structure fire. They didn't say I didnt have to worry about a properly fitting N95.

 

[BLSBoy]

We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act

Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.

When I had my on duty accident, I was unable to shave for over a week.
I hated having a beard. Most I can go is 3 or 4 days without it getting annoying, and I hop in the shower and get it shaved.

 

[piranah]

I have a goatee and have had no issues with the N-95...our requirements in school were to be trimmed and presentable at all times..period

 

[fortsmithman]

We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act

Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.

I don't have a beard. It would bug the heck out of me. I bet bothered when the hair starts growing. I shave once a day face and top of head. I have had coworkers consider drawing 3 holes on the back of my head for the bowling ball effect.

 

[CARRERA]

I'm looking at a packet that I received from AMR when they came to my class and it says "No beards or goatees allowed, due to OSHA regulations".

 

[reaper]

Could have sworn I already stated that I was fit-tested for an N95 without a problem, and as such there are no infection control issues to speak of...






Ditto. Nothing wrong if you pass the test and it's clean.

Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.

This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.

If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!

 

[VentMedic]

Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.

This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.

If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!

How many employers use quantative testing rather than qualitative?

Qualitative tests rely solely on subjective reports of smelling or tasting a test agent introduced into a test chamber. If a person really wants to keep his facial hair, he may say whatever he needs to accomplish that. Or, he may believe that just a little leak won't matter. Some don't realize how small microorganisms can be that will get by a mask that does not have an adequate seal. Some hospitals make it a policy not to test men with facial hair for the regular N95 masks but rather give them access to a different respirator which has a full face mask or hood style. ​

 

[Shishkabob]

Correction, not full beard, full goatee, as in my profile pic, my bad on the wording.

 

[EMSLaw]

I disagree that beards are unprofessional. I've had one from time to time, including now.

However, if you need to be able to wear a full-face mask, then you need to remain clean-shaven. If I were in that situation, and wanted to keep my job, I'd shave.

 

[Akulahawk]

FD said I didn't need to worry about SCBA as I wont be going in to a structure fire. They didn't say I didnt have to worry about a properly fitting N95.

This is what I very much suspected. A Fire Department normally wouldn't allow a PARAMEDIC INTERN who is NOT A FIREFIGHTER WITH THAT DEPARTMENT to perform suppression or any activity that would require an SCBA.

I'm looking at a packet that I received from AMR when they came to my class and it says "No beards or goatees allowed, due to OSHA regulations".

It's just easier to require that men (and hairy women) be clean shaven than to write specifications for how much facial hair is allowable.

Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.

This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.

If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!

I've done N95 fit testing too. My experience matches yours. While we've had employees that had mustaches, those were NEVER allowed to extend beyond the corners of the mouth and they were required to keep their mustache neatly trimmed. We also did retest, and required that everyone be tested with all models of the N95 masks we had. This way we knew which masks fit which employees and each employee knew which masks fit him or her, and this was a required check-off item for unit check-out prior to service each day. I've seen goateed employees fail testing because of their facial hair... It was an eye-opener for them... because they thought they were getting a good seal.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

My buddy and I where just fit tested a few months ago, He shaved his goatee for it but when we took the test the guy running it told us that he has guys who pass it with a full goatee.

I am guessing it depends on the shape of each persons face and how much of a goatee they got going on, if it comes in contact with the seal, as stated you risk failing the test.

 

[LawKev]

Beardism

There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.

 

[LawKev]

Beardism

There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.

bwt check out this link:

http://blogs.hcpro.com/osha/2009/04/sneak-peak-at-the-qa-roundtable/

peace

 

[ExpatMedic0]

I do not think having a beard is unprofessional, but if its interfering with your protective mask that your employer issues it is not discrimination.

There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.

 

[reaper]

The entire issue is saftey. You cannot get a seal with a full beard. It is impossible.

This is not discrimination. No one cares about their religion. They care about the saftey. If they keep full beards for their religion, then they can choose another line of work. That is their choice to make. Why is discrimination always thrown out as an excuse, when some dont get their way?

 

[LawKev]

Maybe you did not listen to the audio in the link before you posted. Did you here what was said about alternative masks and equal opportunity?

 

[Markhk]

OSHA 1910.134(g)(1) specifically states,

"The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function..."

What does this mean ultimately?

- If a person has a beard, a N95 tight fitting respirator cannot be used
- A person with a beard with thus need to use an alternative device like a PAPR
- If a person has a well groomed goatee that does not touch the sealing surface of the respirator, then it can still meet the OSHA requirement for fit testing of a N95 respirator.

AMR in my area did have some requirements for facial hair at one point...my understanding is that the dept did relax the requirements within the past year, lead to a new growth of healthy mustaches.

 

[LawKev]

OSHA 1910.134(g)(1) specifically states,

"The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function..."

What does this mean ultimately?

- If a person has a beard, a N95 tight fitting respirator cannot be used
- A person with a beard with thus need to use an alternative device like a PAPR
- If a person has a well groomed goatee that does not touch the sealing surface of the respirator, then it can still meet the OSHA requirement for fit testing of a N95 respirator.

AMR in my area did have some requirements for facial hair at one point...my understanding is that the dept did relax the requirements within the past year, lead to a new growth of healthy mustaches.

I'm preparing to sit for the New Jersey EMT-B exam. I am a Orthodox Sunni Muslim and I have had a beard for about 13 years. Could I purchase the PAPR mask myself and present it to a potential employer if there is an issue? Would that work or would it be a waste of time?

Thank You