ambulance driving

[emtwacker710]

i also think setting a arbitrary number to it is bs anyway. each person should be evaluated for maturity and competence individually. i have met some really mature 18y/o's and some grossly incompetent people 23 and up. as senior citizens say, age is just a number.

THANK YOU!!!!!! I wish you could drill that into the officers heads at my station.

 

[mdkemt]

In school they have a drivers course you take there. Once you pass that any service will allow you to drive. And it always goes by experience if you never took that driving course.

 

[keith10247]

In my station, anybody can go through the EVOC class once they turn 18. Once they pass, they are not allowed to be released as a driver until they do 20 hours of drive time to get used to driving in the area. Once they get their 20 hours in, an officer will take the student out on a road test. The road test consists of driving to the top of the "mountain" that is in our first due (with limited navigation from the officer), a blind test in one of our Mc Mansion communities that have a ton of confusing roads.

The blind test consists of having the person taking the test to lay on the stretcher with a blanket over them as they are driven in to the community. The ambulance stops somewhere random in the community and they are instructed to navigate out of the community. Each student also has to identify atleast 2 routes to the 3 closest hospitals and the hospital that serves as our only local trauma center.

Once the person is released to drive, the duty crew officer still has the choice to not let you drive if they do not feel comfortable with that driver. My duty crew officer mostly lets me drive because she really doesn't trust the other drivers in her crew. We also have some people who went through EVOC but will never be released due to not being a mature individual.

 

[TraumaJunkie]

if your over 18 and have a pulse your good to go. (id rather it not be this way but there isn't anything i can do to change policy)

 

[mikie]

Not only would you have to be in good standing with the dept, but take a driver's 'test' -basically the officer would give an address and you would have to drive there takign the best/fastest/safest route

though, I was allowed to drive once (haven't been signed off nor did I ever think it would happen) because we were understaffed.

 

[JimmyG]

Again, people make far too big of a deal out of driving.

It takes minimal training (in the form an 8 hour defensive driving course) and remotely no talent to get behind the wheel of an ambulance.

You should drive an ambulance the same way you drive your own vehicle - defensively. The only time "emergency driving" should be different is when you are exercising an exemption set forth by the law. Exemptions would include exceeding posted speed limits, proceeding through a stop signal, etc.

In all honesty, 90% of calls do not require an immediate emergent response. The only exceptions, in my opinion, are life & limb compromising situations. Key term: TRUE EMERGENCY.

I get a laugh at all of these organizations where "driving regulations" comprise virtually 50% of their SOPs.

Shut the lights off. Take your foot of the gas. Slow down.

 

[BossyCow]

Again, people make far too big of a deal out of driving.

I get a laugh at all of these organizations where "driving regulations" comprise virtually 50% of their SOPs.

Shut the lights off. Take your foot of the gas. Slow down.

Yeah, tell that to the insurance providers! You sound like its the agencies making these regulations. It isn't. All it takes is one measley little million dollar lawsuit and the SOGs change. Every one of those "silly" regulations is based on an incident where someone did something stupid and someone sued. The lawyer of the person suing says.. "Well you say that you tell your drivers how to drive safely.. can you prove that????" Then we get little memos from our insurer stating, here is the language you have to put into your SOGs or we won't cover you if that happens.

 

[rmellish]

THANK YOU!!!!!! I wish you could drill that into the officers heads at my station.

It's not so much an age set by the department, as it is an age set by the insurer. It tends to cost far more annually to insure a service which allows an 18 yr old to drive vs a 21 yr old.

Volunteer departments typically have less costly insurance, which is why their required driving age tends to be lower.

 

[Jon]

...I get a laugh at all of these organizations where "driving regulations" comprise virtually 50% of their SOPs...

I don't have any problem with an organization having a 14-page vehicle operations policy. My per diem employer's policy specifies things like seat belt use, and no-no's... even when running hot... You MUST completely stop at every red light and stop sign... failure to do so is grounds for immediate termination.

Spelling it out tells me what I need to do... and enforcing the rules keeps us all safe. If I'm in the back of the truck... I want my partner to get me to the ED alive.

...Shut the lights off. Take your foot of the gas. Slow down.

I agree. Even if you run emergently to every 911 call, or almost every 911 call... most calls don't require emergent transport... and emergent transport also is more difficult for the driver.. because he/she/it is the only person in the cab to control the lights, sirens, radios, MDT, and watch all the traffic... an extra set of eyes is a great thing.

 

[emtwacker710]

It's not so much an age set by the department, as it is an age set by the insurer. It tends to cost far more annually to insure a service which allows an 18 yr old to drive vs a 21 yr old.

Volunteer departments typically have less costly insurance, which is why their required driving age tends to be lower.

yup they recently did this at my fire company, the insurance company "recommended" that our drivers be at least 21 or older and our company went with it, then the insurance company came back and "recommended" that our drivers be 21 and also have a valid CDL...we were like no way, because we wouln't have any drivers because our members that have that type of license are usually on the road a lot working

 

[rmellish]

we were like no way, because we wouln't have any drivers because our members that have that type of license are usually on the road a lot working

Thats not an unrealistic request. If the goal is a more professional response, then a major part of that will be training. Whether you are a paid department or volunteer, you're still driving similar apparatus. Untrained or inexperienced drivers are a major liability and safety issue, both for the responders, and for the community they serve.

 

[Jon]

Thats not an unrealistic request. If the goal is a more professional response, then a major part of that will be training. Whether you are a paid department or volunteer, you're still driving similar apparatus. Untrained or inexperienced drivers are a major liability and safety issue, both for the responders, and for the community they serve.

Around here, there is an exemption for fire vehicles from the commercial driver's licensing laws, even though the vehicles meet the criteria for Class B or Class A licenses.

Some departments require the commercial license, some departments prefer the commercial licenses, but allow experienced drivers to operate the apparatus, and some departments have no requirements.

I'm not on the management side, but I've been told that the company gets a better insurance rate if they require a commercial license. If the result is a driver who is appropriately trained to handle a vehicle of that size, AND lower insurance rates, it seems like a good idea. We are volunteer agencies and only have a finite amount of money.

 

[emtwacker710]

yea, well all of our guys that do drive our trucks no one would really consider a liability, they all have exp. and about half of the ones that dont have a CDL used to or have driven some kind of big truck before..

 

[tydek07]

haha, oldfiredog.... that little smiley face thing got to me after that particular sentence.

 

[BossyCow]

Our EVAP class, with yearly updates and a total recert every three years gives us a type of CDL which is only while driving district rigs. (So you can't use the fire dist. training to go drive a bus for the school)

 

[medicdan]

Around here, there is an exemption for fire vehicles from the commercial driver's licensing laws, even though the vehicles meet the criteria for Class B or Class A licenses.

Thats interesting-- I understand that in MA there is an exemption to the requirement for a CLD for fire apparatus only in the case of an active calls, that is, an un-credentialed driver can drive the truck TO a fire, but not back to the station.
I also understand that many departments require their drivers to maintain CDL rating PLUS a fire apparatus rating (because of the free surface effect coming fro the water tank).

 

[Jon]

The real hoot here in PA is that a FF can legally drive an engine to the driver's testing center on his own for his Class B test... The exam centers require that you have someone with you who has the correct license and is, at a minimum, supervising you on your commercial learner's permit... but with fire apparatus, you don't need the supervision - I know someone who took his Class B test that way a few years back.

 

[firemedic7982]

The State of Texas does not require a person to have a special liscense to drive an Ambulance. A Simple "Class C" or normal non-commercial drivers liscense is sufficient.

The State of Texas does not require a special permit to drive a Fire Apparattus EMERGENCY TRAFFIC TO A CALL
But does require that a CDL be possessed by anyone driving a Fire Apparattus in any non-emergency capacity.

-------------------

My Fire Dept. I was with for 10 years had strict driving policies. All E/O's had to be a Firefighter in good standing, and off probation for a time of no less than one calendar year after the end of his/her probation, and/or one full calendar year since his/her last disciplinary action.

The E/O candidate then must have endorsement from their leiutenant, capt, Sr. Capt, and Dist. Chief. At this point the E/O candidate must obtain their "Class B" CDL learners permit from the TX dept. of public safety. The E/O candidate enters a training program where they will drive the apparattus under specified conditions ( daytime non-emergency, nightime non-emergency, daytime emergency, nighttime emergency, rain, wind, heavy traffic, etc.) The E/O candidate must demonstrate their driving proficiency on each type of apparattus the dept. operates (engine, ladder, booster, tanker, heavy rescue, rehab, squad)

After the candidate shows proficiency in driving with his/her appointed FTO. They must demonstrate hands on proficiency, and written proficiency by means of exam in the Pump operations of each vehicle.

The dept. guidlines basically follow the TX Commision on Fire Protection standards, and the process usually takes 6-8 months to continue. Once completed, the newly appointed E/O is then on probation for a period of no less than 90 days. and must recertify with the dept. Each year via written exam, and every other year via hands on offensive and defensive obstacal, and pumping courses.

 

[Flight-LP]

Again, people make far too big of a deal out of driving.

It takes minimal training (in the form an 8 hour defensive driving course) and remotely no talent to get behind the wheel of an ambulance.

You should drive an ambulance the same way you drive your own vehicle - defensively. The only time "emergency driving" should be different is when you are exercising an exemption set forth by the law. Exemptions would include exceeding posted speed limits, proceeding through a stop signal, etc.

In all honesty, 90% of calls do not require an immediate emergent response. The only exceptions, in my opinion, are life & limb compromising situations. Key term: TRUE EMERGENCY.

I get a laugh at all of these organizations where "driving regulations" comprise virtually 50% of their SOPs.

Shut the lights off. Take your foot of the gas. Slow down.

Unfortunately, your opinion has no bearing on the definition of a patients emergency. Most often, a potential emergency cannot be fully evaluated until after the ambulance is on scene, thus negating your statement above.

I'm glad you find "driving regulations" humerous as it is always good to have a stong sense of humor in this industry, but I for one am appreciative of any agency that places a value on protecting their employees. It is wonderful that agencies have such outlined instructions that detail exactly the methodology the wish for employees to use when operating a $100k vehicle.

I'm sorry, but today's teenagers do not know how to drive. They recieve half-arsed instruction and very little continuous supervision at home. The insurance industry and most quality EMS agencies identify and agree with this statement as previously discussed. Considering they are the professionals of the driving industry, they know more about it than most of us. Still don't believe me, take a moment to read these..............

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=7737

http://www.emtcity.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11850