ALS/PALS Certification

[VaEMT66]

This question is probably a very stupid question..but, I am going to ask anyway.

Im VERY NEW to the EMS community. I just started EMT-B training a few weeks ago, and just started volunteering for our local rescue squad. So, I still dont know all the "ins and outs" of EMS.

I have seen several places where I can complete the ALS/PALS/PHTLS certs online and at various training centers, but, is it possible to complete the certifications as an EMT-B? Or, do I have to wait and enroll in an Intermediate or Paramedic class?

Thanks.
Jeff

 

[EMT-P633]

hey VaEMT66!

yes, you do need to get your EMT-I or EMT-P prior to taking ACLS/PALS.

Im sure you could sit in on the class and learn alot as a basic, This is actually a good idea if you are going to be working with a medic on an ALS rig. you would be learning what you can do to assist them during the call.

As far as obtaining the cert. you have to have either the I or P depending on your state potocols. Prior to enrolling in the class.

 

[VaEMT66]

Thanks.

I know that when you go through an Intermediate/Paramedic course, you get alot of ALS training. So, I assume these ALS/PALS certs are more indepth than whats taught in class.

Thanks again for the quick reply. I appreciate it.

Jeff

 

[Ridryder911]

Welcome.

As an instructor and Affiliate faculty for ACLS, PALS, I will inform you technically you do not have to have advanced level certification. As well there is NO certification levels from AHA, rather they are education to the standards set forth by the American Heart Association.

It is recommended one has completed such advanced levels to fully understand and be able to utilize the recommendations.

I personally do NOT recommend anyone less than the Paramedic level in EMS attending or taking such courses. There are far more courses that would be beneficial in the level that they practice on. As well, having ACLS, PALS does not imply or allow any additional skills or license in any state, again a educational class.

If you want additional education in pediatrics attempt to find a PEPP for basic providers or PHTLS for basic providers regarding trauma care.

Good luck!

R/r 911

 

[imurphy]

I am going to have to disagree with RR on this one.

I did the ACLS course back home in Ireland, where there is no provision of ALS on the roads and I knew I wouldn't be able to use the ACLS interventions.

However, I learned a lot on the course and it gave me a far better understanding of what all those bouncy lines on the monitor meant. Even thought I wasn't allowed to do the interventions I felt better knowing what was going on and it gave me a lot better understanding of the heart's electrical system.

Once you go in looking for knowledge, it can be good!

 

[mikie]

I do think it would be an interesting class to take, whether or not I would pass, it seems like it would be good insight to the future

 

[KEVD18]

if you dont have an als background before taking acls, theres a very good chance you wont pass the course.

you need to understand pharmacology and cardiology to understand acls. its very difficult to run a successful megacode on 12hrs training.

i agree that the pursuit of knowledge should never stop. but there are limits to the usefulness of that statement.

 

[Ridryder911]

Being a basic with ACLS means nothing. Sorry, that it is like having a Basic attending a class on advanced neonatology. Nice to know, but in relevance it would be much better for one to obtain something that is more useful and more relevant to their job and current position. Save your money and attend something you will be able to use.

Passing ACLS means nothing as well. My x-ray tech was able to pass. They can do no more than before they attended the course. You are NOT certified for anything. One that reads the ACLS algorithm has as much credibility as one that has passed an ACLS course.

ACLS has been "dumbed" down so much it has no credibility or value except that one knows the algorithm for a cardiac arrest. That is why so many Paramedics are attempting to get it removed from the "required" educational list. It has lost all of its stigma of representing that one actually knows anything about cardiac care, the way it used to.

It is just a course to state you have memorized the AHA and ECC recommended treatment modalities, and that's about all.

I teach it because it because it is required, other than that I would not. I do teach cardiac care courses but is way far much in depth than an ACLS course.

 

[mikie]

If I took it, it wouldn't be for certification (even if there was the slimmest chance I passed, it's not like I could perform those interventions as a BLS provider). For me, it would be more of a learning challenge and insight

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

Welcome.

As an instructor and Affiliate faculty for ACLS, PALS, I will inform you technically you do not have to have advanced level certification. As well there is NO certification levels from AHA, rather they are education to the standards set forth by the American Heart Association.

It is recommended one has completed such advanced levels to fully understand and be able to utilize the recommendations.

I personally do NOT recommend anyone less than the Paramedic level in EMS attending or taking such courses. There are far more courses that would be beneficial in the level that they practice on. As well, having ACLS, PALS does not imply or allow any additional skills or license in any state, again a educational class.
If you want additional education in pediatrics attempt to find a PEPP for basic providers or PHTLS for basic providers regarding trauma care.

Good luck!

R/r 911

If you have ACLS, PALS, or whatever for either BLS or ALS, it will greatly help in the back of the truck. The more you know what's going on, the more the patient benefits. We can't do it alone. We need as much help as we can get. Any medic who says they don't is dangerous and stupid.

if you dont have an als background before taking acls, theres a very good chance you wont pass the course.

you need to understand pharmacology and cardiology to understand acls. its very difficult to run a successful megacode on 12hrs training.

i agree that the pursuit of knowledge should never stop. but there are limits to the usefulness of that statement.

Odds are not passing? I disagree. "I ain't the dawg in the fight. It's the fight in the dawg." I don't know you. You might pass with flying colors. If you want it, go for it. It won't be easy, but it is pass-able. Besides, it's great for CEU's

Good luck

 

[Ridryder911]

Knowing and being able to perform and assist in a code, cardiac care, etc is a gimme. Any EMS that provides ALS should ensure that all their levels can assist the Paramedic.

It should be part of the orientation program. All of our basics know how to spike bags, perform XII leads, and prepare for intubation, as well what to do afterwards. It does not take an ACLS class to know this, nor does ACLS courses teach this, as this is NOT part of the curriculum. Again, sitting in a class room for multiple days reviewing scenarios and performing cardiac arrest and ECG interpretation has little to no value to BLS personal. Hence the reason is not recommended.

If one want to spend the time and money, so be it. My point is there is better courses out there that would be more applicable.

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

If you have ACLS, PALS, or whatever for either BLS or ALS, it will greatly help in the back of the truck. The more you know what's going on, the more the patient benefits. We can't do it alone. We need as much help as we can get. Any medic who says they don't is dangerous and stupid.



Odds are not passing? I disagree. "I ain't the dawg in the fight. It's the fight in the dawg." I don't know you. You might pass with flying colors. If you want it, go for it. It won't be easy, but it is pass-able. Besides, it's great for CEU's

Good luck

Not just the skills, Rid, but also some of the "why" as well.

 

[Ridryder911]

Unfortunately, the "why's" will not be answered in a ACLS course.

R/r 911

 

[reaper]

Most ACLS/PALS classes, won't even let EMT's in the class. I have been to a few ACLS classes that would let EMT's sit in on them, but they do not issue cards to them. I have never seen a PALS class that allowed EMT's to even sit in on them.

If they want to spend the money to sit in and learn what they can, I see no problem with it. But, I would not issue a card or CEU's for it.

 

[pumper12fireman]

Most ACLS/PALS classes, won't even let EMT's in the class. I have been to a few ACLS classes that would let EMT's sit in on them, but they do not issue cards to them. I have never seen a PALS class that allowed EMT's to even sit in on them.

If they want to spend the money to sit in and learn what they can, I see no problem with it. But, I would not issue a card or CEU's for it.

Which is why my paramedic program does not release the cards to us students (even though we passed ACLS) until after the course is completed/license in hand.

 

[triemal04]

Ridryder-
While I can definetly agree that ACLS is extremely dumbed down, and at this point a completely worthless class in the majority of instances, I'm curious why you think it ended up this way, and, specifically, how much is JCAHO to blame for it?

Under JCAHO standards as I understand them, the majority of medical personell in hospitals are required to have an ACLS class under their belt. This includes many RN's who will rarely be assisting in a code/CVA/AMI situation, and will very likely never be running a code/CVA/AMI. Put another way, why do many RN's (not all) need this course? Having seen multiple RN's perform in this class, and the amount of knowledge they had going into it, I can't help but wonder if this isn't a reason for how poor a class it's become. ACLS stills falls under emergency medicine, a topic that most medical professionals don't learn about. To really learn and understand the concepts that are being taught requires much, much more than 16 hours, but no class that I've seen is longer than that.

May be rambling, but the more people that are required to have a certification that they don't need, the more people there will be that enter a class unprepared, which means there will be more and more people failing, unless the standards are upheld and the course is lengthened. But, (and this has been shown over and over) what generally happens is the course is dumbed down and people are pushed through regardless of what they really learned.