Advice on Jurisdiction Issues

[mycrofft]

...and then you get US!

Law and SOP's ain't excremento unless enforced, and LE may have subrogated SAR to FD at some point or is unwilling to step up. LE is being tasked with animal control in many areas, too, and will not necessarily want SAR.
You need a lobbyist. And a busy fire season to keep em busy.

 

[DrParasite]

DrParasite, I think you misunderstood. Internally we can do whatever we want as long as logic and jurisdiction is on our side. i.e. we can, without involving FIRE, change and clariffy dispatch procedures within Sheriff's Office (with some effort). That does nothing to change how FIRE views the execution of Rescue and their role on rescue calls. Clarrifying that takes the involvement of all agencies.

I guess I did.

the first thing you need to change is dispatch, so you can be there. it's a lot easier for you to tell the fire department that you are handling this if you are there with all your crew, with all your equipment, and you are right next to him on the scene ready to go. that should be the FIRST thing.

changing attitudes on scene is a little different. many FD's have problems with police officers running into burning buildings, protected by just their badges and guns, as they attempt to perform a rescue (instead of waiting until the FD gets there). And before anyone asks, yes, nationwide, some LEOs are no longer with us, others had to be rescued by the FD when they got trapped, and others were injured/out on disability after sustaining injuries as a result. The reason I bring this example up is because it demonstrates that you aren't going to change people's opinions when it comes to making a rescue by using logic. There are FF/LEOs who won't do CPR on a 70 year old man, but if it's a 1 year old not breathing, they will beat you to the scene and be on the way to the hospital in the patrol car before you even get dispatched. again, it comes down to that "hero tunnel vision"

Until someone gets lost/hurt/heaven forbid killed, they will still try to do something, and make a rescue. they might lack the training and equipment to do it safely, but it's very hard to stand by and do nothing.

but once you are on scene with them, with your equipment, if they do something stupid and you have to rescue their crews, well, maybe then they will see the light.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I guess I did.

the first thing you need to change is dispatch, so you can be there. it's a lot easier for you to tell the fire department that you are handling this if you are there with all your crew, with all your equipment, and you are right next to him on the scene ready to go. that should be the FIRST thing.

changing attitudes on scene is a little different. many FD's have problems with police officers running into burning buildings, protected by just their badges and guns, as they attempt to perform a rescue (instead of waiting until the FD gets there). And before anyone asks, yes, nationwide, some LEOs are no longer with us, others had to be rescued by the FD when they got trapped, and others were injured/out on disability after sustaining injuries as a result. The reason I bring this example up is because it demonstrates that you aren't going to change people's opinions when it comes to making a rescue by using logic. There are FF/LEOs who won't do CPR on a 70 year old man, but if it's a 1 year old not breathing, they will beat you to the scene and be on the way to the hospital in the patrol car before you even get dispatched. again, it comes down to that "hero tunnel vision"

Until someone gets lost/hurt/heaven forbid killed, they will still try to do something, and make a rescue. they might lack the training and equipment to do it safely, but it's very hard to stand by and do nothing.

but once you are on scene with them, with your equipment, if they do something stupid and you have to rescue their crews, well, maybe then they will see the light.

Agreed 100%.

Well defined policies and procedures are must be defined that rapidly puts the appropriate resources into the proper position to do what they do best.

The question is, as we move forward: Do we tackle the problme first with Dispatch and then with the other agencies? Do we hammer out an Response Operating Plan with the other agencies first? Or do we work the problem from both angles at the same time.

Based on your response, I take it you believe that dispatch is the first priority? I was approaching it from the other angle, deal with FIRE and then dispatch, but I beleive your approach might make more logistical sense. Several of us are already setting plans into motion and will be having a Team Leader Meetng to discuss things in depth, and your input will be considered... thanx.

 

[DrParasite]

Based on your response, I take it you believe that dispatch is the first priority? I was approaching it from the other angle, deal with FIRE and then dispatch, but I beleive your approach might make more logistical sense. Several of us are already setting plans into motion and will be having a Team Leader Meetng to discuss things in depth, and your input will be considered... thanx.

fight one battle at a time. with dispatch, all you need to do is get the response protocol changed. with the FD, you need to change egos, points of view, and get people to do something they don't want to do. what's easier?

anything else I can help you with, send me an IM on AIM.

 

[medic417]

Just monitor radios and automatically activate yourselves. If you are an official organization should be no problem.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Just monitor radios and automatically activate yourselves. If you are an official organization should be no problem.

Being on call 24/7 I tend to keep my radio handy on weekends and holidays... and when I hear somthing happening that sound SARish... I do self dispatch, no l&s, but I start driving either toward the cache or toward the call code 2... I am not proud of it, but that reaction saves me 10-30 minutes on response... and time is life... :blush:

 

[Trayos]

Do you have a specialized dispatch system in place already? Or do you get handed calls from the regular system that oversees your district?