Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastr

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My god, not another one of these
 
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Why exactly is this under EMS Talk?
 
Why exactly is this under EMS Talk?

Well, uh because medics worked in the 9-1-1 disaster and not only were they exposed to harmful material but have also died. So yes, I would consider this EMS worthy.

R/r 911
 
Well, since the OP saw fit to place it here, and I don't necessarily consider it EMS related news...or any type of true news for that matter. :P
 
Well, uh because medics worked in the 9-1-1 disaster and not only were they exposed to harmful material but have also died. So yes, I would consider this EMS worthy.

R/r 911

That I would definitely consider worthy of a good conversation.

However, if this is going to get into the conspiracy theories............
 
That I would definitely consider worthy of a good conversation.

However, if this is going to get into the conspiracy theories............

I will be the first to pistol whip anyone who wants to start arguing that it was a conspiracy....



Same for Shenanigans


Seriously
 
You sure? 'Cause I am gonna be trying to get the first pistol whip in on those people!:P

I used to work with one of the "conspiracy theorists"


Sometimes I thought about how bad it would hurt to run off into a drainage ditch with her in the passenger seat...
 
:)
I used to work with one of the "conspiracy theorists"


Sometimes I thought about how bad it would hurt to run off into a drainage ditch with her in the passenger seat...

*Big grin* :)

Don't you just hate it...................?
 
*Gasp* The dancing lock?????

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I don't claim to have all the answers, or know exactly what happened.

I do know that Firefighters inside the buildings heard more than one explosion and that concrete doesn't just pulverize itself into dust. I also know that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt hardened steel. No other hardened steel structure has EVER fallen the way those THREE (how many got hit by planes?) buildings did as a result of fire in recorded history.

There are enough unanswered questions to let me know that we were not told the truth.

Why are first responders getting sick?

First Responders and EMS who worked this scene are exactly why i felt that this was an EMS talk related subject.

I'd like to see someone come to my door and try to pistol whip me.

Flame all you want, i'm entitled to my opinion and you won't squelch it by pseudo-threatening me in an online forum. Does your fake aggression actually win the debate in your head?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I am a person who lives my life by using the checks and balances of critical thinking, curiosity, logic and reason.

If you think you know how those buildings went down, please enlighten me, so that I can stop being horrified at what happened that day.

And as a result of that day. I'm so utterly appalled at the course of history that our country has complacently embarked upon.

AND NOW... we get to foot the bill for it too.

FWIW another forum that I posted this link on had some interestingly negative responses about the source of this article.

I'm not a physicist or a chemist, so I have not authority to verify the credibility of Bentham. I did however find the report interesting. I have also heard the discussions of Dr. Steven Jones who is one of the authors of this report.
 
Why are first responders getting sick?

First Responders and EMS who worked this scene are exactly why i felt that this was an EMS talk related subject.

One of the weaknesses discussed in the rescue efforts was the lack of compliance and/or availability of protective devices for the airways.

I am not a structural engineer so I can not even begin to intelligently discuss how a building is supposed to collapse. However, if you want to discuss the many respiratory problems that have been linked to 9/11, that is a good topic and one I do know a little about.

York City Fire Department Rescue Workers
Granulomatous Pulmonary Disease in New
World Trade Center ?Sarcoid-Like?

http://www.chestjournal.org/content...html?sid=80ce3a71-338d-48df-9088-4eb6229cab1d

Longitudinal Assessment of Spirometry in
the World Trade Center Medical Monitoring

Respiratory Symptoms and Physiologic
Assessment of Ironworkers at the World
Trade Center Disaster Site
http://www.chestjournal.org/content/125/4/1248.full.pdf+html?sid=ffd440ac-8402-43c6-9d94-6f3bf9872bff


Symptoms, Respirator Use, and Pulmonary Function Changes Among New York City Firefighters Responding to the World Trade Center Disaster
http://www.chestjournal.org/content/125/4/1256.full.pdf+html?sid=52210b0b-3a5b-42cd-85b5-9e39528128ed


Distal Airway Function in Symptomatic Subjects With Normal Spirometry Following World Trade Center Dust Exposure
http://www.chestjournal.org/content/132/4/1275.full.pdf+html?sid=52210b0b-3a5b-42cd-85b5-9e39528128ed


Granulomatous Pneumonitis Following Exposure to the World Trade Center Collapse
http://www.chestjournal.org/content/123/1/301.full.pdf+html?sid=ffd440ac-8402-43c6-9d94-6f3bf9872bff



The New York City Fire Department World Trade Center Tobacco Cessation Study
http://www.chestjournal.org/content/129/4/979.full.pdf+html?sid=ffd440ac-8402-43c6-9d94-6f3bf9872bff

Characterization of the Dust/Smoke Aerosol That Settled East of the World Trade Center (WTC) in Lower Manhattan after the Collapse of the WTC 11 September 2001
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3455517
 
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I do know that Firefighters inside the buildings heard more than one explosion and that concrete doesn't just pulverize itself into dust. I also know that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt hardened steel.
Funny things happen when you have 40+ stories of a building crumble on top of something.

No one has ever stated that the steel melted. Facts all point towards the heat weakening the steal, and when you have half a building of that magnitude, weighing so many tons, that is a LOT of weight to put on weakened metal.


No other hardened steel structure has EVER fallen the way those THREE (how many got hit by planes?) buildings did as a result of fire in recorded history.

It wasn't "just" fire. In the case of the two main buildings, it was TWO large passenger planes SMASHING in to them at a very fast speed.

In the case of #7, it was the damage and heat caused by the other 2 falling towers.

The only other sky-scraper hit by a plane in history, was hit by a small prop plane, NOT a large passenger plane.


There are enough unanswered questions to let me know that we were not told the truth.
Everyone saw 2 planes hit the towers. EVERYONE saw a plane hit the Pentagon.


Why are first responders getting sick?

A ton of small particles of humans, dust, buildings, and soot inhaled... and you're expecting no sickness? Mmkay.




Flame all you want, i'm entitled to my opinion and you won't squelch it by pseudo-threatening me in an online forum.

If your opinion is not backed by any sort of proof, but just conspiracy theories and "They heard noises", then it's wrong.

Everything was a confusing mess that day. The first news report I heard was that the White House was hit and that a small bi-plane hit the WTC. It's entirely possible, and probable, that they thought they heard something they didn't hear.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I am a person who lives my life by using the checks and balances of critical thinking, curiosity, logic and reason.


If you think you know how those buildings went down, please enlighten me, so that I can stop being horrified at what happened that day.


No, don't stop being horrified by that day. It was and still IS a horrifying day. But it was not a conspiracy.





Before you respond to any other comment I made in this reply, answer this question for me, and keep in mind, every single person I've asked has yet to come up with a logical answer.



How on earth would someone keep a conspiracy THAT big secret for this long, without so much as the slightest inside leak?
 
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That I would definitely consider worthy of a good conversation.

However, if this is going to get into the conspiracy theories............

The truth is out there...
 
Funny things happen when you have 40+ stories of a building crumble on top of something.

No one has ever stated that the steel melted. Facts all point towards the heat weakening the steal, and when you have half a building of that magnitude, weighing so many tons, that is a LOT of weight to put on weakened metal.




It wasn't "just" fire. In the case of the two main buildings, it was TWO large passenger planes SMASHING in to them at a very fast speed.

In the case of #7, it was the damage and heat caused by the other 2 falling towers.

The only other sky-scraper hit by a plane in history, was hit by a small prop plane, NOT a large passenger plane.


Everyone saw 2 planes hit the towers. EVERYONE saw a plane hit the Pentagon.




A ton of small particles of humans, dust, buildings, and soot inhaled... and you're expecting no sickness? Mmkay.






If your opinion is not backed by any sort of proof, but just conspiracy theories and "They heard noises", then it's wrong.

Everything was a confusing mess that day. The first news report I heard was that the White House was hit and that a small bi-plane hit the WTC. It's entirely possible, and probable, that they thought they heard something they didn't hear.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I am a person who lives my life by using the checks and balances of critical thinking, curiosity, logic and reason.





No, don't stop being horrified by that day. It was and still IS a horrifying day. But it was not a conspiracy.





Before you respond to any other comment I made in this reply, answer this question for me, and keep in mind, every single person I've asked has yet to come up with a logical answer.



How on earth would someone keep a conspiracy THAT big secret for this long, without so much as the slightest inside leak?
Heres the deal. There is so much information and disinformation out there now about these supposed conspiracy theories that your never going to be able to refute all of them. Its a good position to not even try, because once the tiny nit picking details are brought up, the theorists will catch you in a "lie" that may or may not be there, and beat you from experience. Trust me B)
 
First Responders and EMS who worked this scene are exactly why i felt that this was an EMS talk related subject.

Flame all you want, i'm entitled to my opinion and you won't squelch it by pseudo-threatening me in an online forum. Does your fake aggression actually win the debate in your head?

It is an EMS related subject if we confine it to the HEALTH aspects of it, and not the conspiracy aspect.

And yes, you are entitled to your opinion about every subject in the world but that doesn't mean you get to voice them here. The same goes for everybody else that has posted in this thread. If you want to discuss conspiracy theories about that day, then do so somewhere else.

So instead of
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I don't claim to have all the answers, or know exactly what happened.
Or know anything for that matter.

I do know that Firefighters inside the buildings heard more than one explosion and that concrete doesn't just pulverize itself into dust. I also know that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt hardened steel. No other hardened steel structure has EVER fallen the way those THREE (how many got hit by planes?) buildings did as a result of fire in recorded history.
Really?
You KNOW that concrete doesn't pulverize itself?
Tell me skippy, how much kinetic energy DOES a 110 story TRUSS FRAME construction building have?
Speaking of TRUSS FRAME CONSTRUCTION, tell me, at what temperature does steel begin to loose its structural integrity. (we all know you have NONE, or you would have done some research before spouting off)
Tell me at what temp jet fuel burns.
Tell me how much jet fuel a loaded plane would carry, if it were to fly from Boston to La.
Tell me how much structural damage would be inflicted to a structure such at the WTC, which was unique due to its unorthodox construction a loaded passenger liner would do.
Look at the Hackensack Dealership fire, back in the 80s.
Look up Francis Braninagan. (sp), and how he has trained generations of firefighters.

There are enough unanswered questions to let me know that we were not told the truth.

Why are first responders getting sick?

First Responders and EMS who worked this scene are exactly why i felt that this was an EMS talk related subject.

I'd like to see someone come to my door and try to pistol whip me.

Flame all you want, i'm entitled to my opinion and you won't squelch it by pseudo-threatening me in an online forum. Does your fake aggression actually win the debate in your head?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I am a person who lives my life by using the checks and balances of critical thinking, curiosity, logic and reason.

If you think you know how those buildings went down, please enlighten me, so that I can stop being horrified at what happened that day.

Do research. Search for yourself before you spout off.
And I won't pistol whip you, but you deserve a good kick in the rear for no common sense.

Go research what I suggested. If you can't draw the conclusions after perusing the material I posted, I give up.
 
The buildings have collapsed. While the debate continues I seriously doubt if anyone on this forum will change what is being done with the information out there or not. Save the conspiracy theories for bar talk with other "engineers". Approach this from the issues that concern medical professionals for both the present and the future. 9/11 showed both our strengths and weaknesses for EMS and the hospitals.

As EMT(P)s we still must treat the survivors, EMS/FFs/PD and residents of the area who are still living. These are issues we should know more about. These people will also not be just in NYC. I see many NYC (or former) residents with pulmonary conditions but then Florida has always been considered part of that state in some way.

How familiar are you with some of the pulmonary diseases mentioned in the articles I linked earlier?

Do you know what breath sounds you might hear that can be confused with what you might normally thing of for another treatment diagnosis?

Crackles? Pleural rub?

Do you understand why your albuterol nebulizer may or may not work?

Are you familiar with the term airway remodeling?

Do you know who complications these diseases impose upon the other systems?

Many have probably seen some of these disorders in people who have worked in various industries but their damage is the result of many years of exposure. The damage to the people from 9/11 occurred in a very short time. However, there are isolated chemical and toxic dust exposures that can bring about similar immediate and life time consequences.
 
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