Accidentally dispatched to Unsafe Scene

[jrm818]

A bit late to the party but...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StHwAffUNxo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[TransportJockey]

Brave Brave sir Robin

 

[Hockey]

Fire the defib at 50,000 volts at the guy.

Yelling is an unsafe scene? Jeesh, I'm more concerned with a drunk on the corner then a scene like that

 

[Cohn]

Look at the radio. See the little orange button. Push the little orange button. Set off warning flares at dispatch. Hopefully my driver remembered to call out on location.

Seriously, I would try to withdraw peacefully and wait for the po-po if I could. I'd call for emergency assistance as above if things looked to be going pear shaped fast.

WHat???? We have a orange button?

I would be nice... unfortunately there is not national standard for radios.

But a simple Code 999 and they will dispatch everything short of a armed military.

 

[Veneficus]

But a simple Code 999 and they will dispatch everything short of a armed military.

As opposed to an unarmed military? :wacko:

Sorry couldn't resist that, it is the highlight of my day so far.

 

[Cohn]

As opposed to an unarmed military? :wacko:

Sorry couldn't resist that, it is the highlight of my day so far.

Your welcome my dear sir

 

[MrBrown]

Looking good Oz, ambulance on scene, street sign at nine o'clock high should not be a problem, keep coming down .... some kids on the sidewalk at seven o'clock low looks like they are staying put, clear down ....

*Brown and Oz roll up in thier funny orange getup

Should be enough to make anybody flee the scene right?

 

[Pseudonymous]

I think it is, once that person is in our care, she is our responsibility, and I think its our job to protect them while they are on or care. We are their advocates until they get to a hospital. while I'd rather not fight a person on scene, it has happened and as mentioned previously, those kinds of men folks like a cheap suit when someone actually shows any kind of confidence.

It's not uncommon for an abusive husband, to walk in on EMS treating his wife, and demand they get away from her, and pick up something that could be used as a weapon. I don't understand how you could just "Retreat to the ambulance with the patient". The husband already said he doesn't want you interacting with her, and he has something that could be used as a weapon in his hand. I personally think it would be asinine to try and "Protect" the patient, by "Taking her back to the ambulance". You would just make the husband angry and attack you, and possibly the patient. Maybe you're okay with getting into a fight on scene, but are you okay the the patient possibly getting hurt more?

The farthest I'd go to protect a patient, is remove them from the scene before the husband comes back, or reasoning with him if he sees you. I don't know how it is where some of you guys come from, but here, we don't carry handcuffs, we don't carry guns, and it's not in our scope of practice to challenge a potentially aggressive man in his own home.

Of course there are plenty of calls that are appropriate to protect a patient from harm, but abusive lovers, at least where I come from, are not people you want to mess with.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Bullets]

It's not uncommon for an abusive husband, to walk in on EMS treating his wife, and demand they get away from her, and pick up something that could be used as a weapon. I don't understand how you could just "Retreat to the ambulance with the patient". The husband already said he doesn't want you interacting with her, and he has something that could be used as a weapon in his hand. I personally think it would be asinine to try and "Protect" the patient, by "Taking her back to the ambulance". You would just make the husband angry and attack you, and possibly the patient. Maybe you're okay with getting into a fight on scene, but are you okay the the patient possibly getting hurt more?

The farthest I'd go to protect a patient, is remove them from the scene before the husband comes back, or reasoning with him if he sees you. I don't know how it is where some of you guys come from, but here, we don't carry handcuffs, we don't carry guns, and it's not in our scope of practice to challenge a potentially aggressive man in his own home.

Of course there are plenty of calls that are appropriate to protect a patient from harm, but abusive lovers, at least where I come from, are not people you want to mess with.

That's my 2 cents.

I believe that OP said the boyfriend/husband was in another part of the house when ems arrived and made patient contact. We are leaving with the patient IMMEDIATLEY, partner and patient first out, I'm close behind, prepared to stall. We are talking 30 seconds or less in the house

 

[Pseudonymous]

I believe that OP said the boyfriend/husband was in another part of the house when ems arrived and made patient contact. We are leaving with the patient IMMEDIATLEY, partner and patient first out, I'm close behind, prepared to stall. We are talking 30 seconds or less in the house

I wasn't really describing OP's situation. OP's situation isn't really that unsafe. I was explaining instead a similar, more dangerous situation that happens very often.

 

[DT4EMS]

This thread does a great job of provoking thought amongst the members.

Interesting how the topic has brought up a lot of great points. A lot of people have given their take on what they might do in such a situation..........but I am curious..........

How many of you have a department that trains you for such situations? A couple folks made comments that this type of a scene as in the OP was not that bad. That they respond regularly to worse........

What type of training did you get in responding to those calls? Does your agency back it up with a policy or is it just a known thing?

I ask because I am truly curious. Most of the stuff people do is what was passed down from the senior folks sharing what was taught to them.

Folks.........Firefighters, EMS and Nurses are injured almost every day due to an assault. Have you mentally prepared yourself for the "what if"?

* What if you hit the guy with the maglite.........and it doesn't stop him?
*What if you back out and he kills the wife?
*What happens if he appears from the back room with a rifle or pistol?

Have you practiced your verbal skills for situations like this? Can you reason with a person who is enraged as in a DV situation? What if there was ETOH involved?

 

[Veneficus]

How many of you have a department that trains you for such situations? A couple folks made comments that this type of a scene as in the OP was not that bad. That they respond regularly to worse........

Never once have I worked anywhere that has trained or even had a policy for these situations. Even the hospitals I am affiliated with in the States and in Europe do not.

What type of training did you get in responding to those calls? Does your agency back it up with a policy or is it just a known thing?

Well, I had several years in martial arts , but no training from the departments. No policy as stated above.

I ask because I am truly curious. Most of the stuff people do is what was passed down from the senior folks sharing what was taught to them.

For once in my life I fit in!!!! Really I learned from the senior guys when I was junior and from first hand experience making mistakes. To give them credit though, I learned a lot from them and I stand by it as not only useful, but valuable. Certainly not all that is needed though.

Folks.........Firefighters, EMS and Nurses are injured almost every day due to an assault. Have you mentally prepared yourself for the "what if"?

Everytime I went on a call or go to the ED. I have spent many years working in the absolute worst environments of mankind, I credit my still creeping around with a lot of preparedness and a little bit of luck.

* What if you hit the guy with the maglite.........and it doesn't stop him?

Never carried a maglite, but on the broader point, if I had to resort to violence, the only thought in my mind is to win by any means neccesary, except tripping my partner, because it really would be life and death.

However, A win may be just buying enough time to escape.

"He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

*What if you back out and he kills the wife?

There is a funeral for her, not for me.

Seriously, though. If I wanted to confront people in order to rescue somebody else, I would have been a soldier or law enforcement officer.

If I thought I could pull her out with me, by all means I would, but I am not trained nor equipped to deal with a hostage, and unless when he turned on her I was pretty confident I could kill him in a single blow (highly unlikely in any event) I am not entering a melee especially with my experience of domestic violence parties turning on would be rescuers.

"Great warriors do not fight to win, they win and then fight."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War. (closest thing I have to a holy book)

*What happens if he appears from the back room with a rifle or pistol?

I run and hide noting the difference between cover and concealment. Always move cover to cover, but concealment is better than nothing. Otherwise "duck and weave."

(to make this sound more heroic I would write in the report: "I took cover")

Have you practiced your verbal skills for situations like this?

Only in sitations like that.

Can you reason with a person who is enraged as in a DV situation? What if there was ETOH involved?

Talk my way out, probably. Reason with them? Nope.

It is always great to see you and your wisdom in these threads.

 

[Bullets]

our department applies the county's user of force policy, which details when using physical, mechanical, chemical, and lethal force is indicated.

Every year the county offers a course for ems and pd called street survival, designed to instruct on how to truly survive in situations requiring a physical responseand hand to hand combat, it includes disarming assailants and vocal diffusion. Its an excellent course taught by a retired state trooper who is an active medic.

 

[Pseudonymous]

*What if you back out and he kills the wife?

There is a funeral for her, not for me.

Seriously, though. If I wanted to confront people in order to rescue somebody else, I would have been a soldier or law enforcement officer.

If I thought I could pull her out with me, by all means I would, but I am not trained nor equipped to deal with a hostage

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Veneficus]

What is going on here?

I am not singling anybody out, but I have noticed a trend.

As the years go by, there are more and more providers who advocate, consider, or in some form or another seem to be of the mind that a confrontation is going to be resolved through force/violence?

I would like to think I know something about the whole matter, having been intimately involved in conflict of some type all of my life, but really? Does anyone who thinks they are going to get into a fight with a bystander or patient ever consider that they might actually not be the person winning the fight?

All it takes is one lucky/unexpected shot, and you could be disabled or worse.

It can happen so suddenly, that if your "protection" in the form of fighting mentality/stance, weapon, or improvised weapon is not at the ready, it will likely be over before it can be brought to bear.

Whether the thread post is "my concealed firearm is so well hidden and inaccessable, that even the UN could authorize force faster than I could recognize a threat, draw, and use it," or "I am such a badass ninja I will beat down in a second without fail, that mentally altered guy who is 3 weight classes higher than me, gets into fights regularly, and when not actually fighting is practicing/rehersing his next one;" it seems many have a dangerous attitude of invincibility.

Does anyone remember that altered people don't really respond to pain?

Does anyone consider that once you commit to actual combat, you may have eliminated any hope of escape?

Maybe you are a badass ninja, but what about your partner?

What happens if you are wounded? Sure the SWAT team is outside, but it might be a few minutes/hours before anyone is coming to help you.

Are you independantly wealthy enough to maintain your family and lifestyle on disability?

What will the strain on your family be?

There are many consequences, so many, I am not going to type them, but really everyone. This is not the movies, the good guys don't always win, the ending is not always happy, and the average emergency worker has considerably more to lose than anyone who would fight with them.

A fight can really cost somebody everything, it is not whoever falls down first is no longer the alpha dog on the playground.

PS. it is really hard to pick up girls when you are in a wheelchair or missing a limb.