Accidentally dispatched to Unsafe Scene

[abckidsmom]

There aren't a lot of situations that can't be talked down. I work in our city's most highly gang saturated area and we get put in situations like these nearly every shift. If the pt/family member/whoever is just yelling... really not too big of a cause for concern. Try and calmly talk the agitated person down (or even just ignoring him and talking to the patient works pretty well, too). If he starts becoming hostile, make some bs up to get the pt into your ambulance. "Ma'am, lets get you in our unit so we can evaluate you a little better." Once your out of his ear shot, get dispatch to send you PD. It's not you they are agitated with, its the situation/pt/whatever. Make it clear you aren't the cops, and they're usually good. The biggest thing is to stay calm. You being hasty and agitated will only make the situation worse. The only time I've ever had to leave a scene because of hostility was a shooting where the shooter was still on scene. He told us to not touch the pt; we gladly obliged and pulled around the corner. And I agree with Veneficus, leave the "weapons" out of it. The only thing it will do is make the situation that much worse because now they're threatened by YOU.

Smart stuff right here.

People skills extend to agitated rednecks, too. In a situation where I wasn't able to actually ask for PD on the radio once, I just keyed up my radio and said loudly, "Sir, please step away from my partner." Had half the precinct in no time.

 

[goodgrief]

Nope.
Im going to truck and calling Pd

Scene unsafe

What is the 1st thing we bang into students in EMT school
1. Dont bug the teacher during lunch
2. Scene safe?

Scene is

 

[Shishkabob]

Nope.
Im going to truck and calling Pd

Scene unsafe

Please, tell me, how is the scene unsafe?

 

[CAOX3]

In my experience these dirtbags abusers cave like cheap suits when confronted by some one who hits back.

So no my safety isn't at risk. But if he decides to introduce violence his definitely will be.

 

[Hal9000]

I have been in too many scenes like that. Mainly, they are simply irritating. I've been yelled and screamed at, but I've managed to talk 95-97% of them in to being calm toward me, if not even apologetic (including someone who choked two subjects until they lost consciousness, and then ended up thanking us profusely—not that I'd trust him), which is an easy way to go.

Just doin' my job; it's not like I want to be in your house...toodles.

 

[goodgrief]

Please, tell me, how is the scene unsafe?

Dv is a unsafe scene until po-po says other wise.
I live in ga, almost everyone has a gun and I'm going home to my beer.

 

[brentoli]

someone calls 911 and reports an argument next door, which included a woman yelling "stop hitting me". obviously a police officer should have gone right away, but by some ridiculous mistake, ems is activated instead for a "sick unknown".

I can tell you the last thing I would do... I'd be on the dispatch center like butter on toast. Being one myself, I don't put up with blatent mistakes.

Was it every relayed to EMS that this was a 3rd party call? I usually ask for PD to start on any 3rd party call, just because then it becomes a big game of Telephone, and I know things are much diffrent then they seem.

bls makes it there first. the argument has abated at this point. my buddy knocks on the door. they enter in to see a woman w/ a black eye and tears in her eyes. Husband had gone to his room. woman immediately beckons them in. at this point they are still assuming an ems call. but then the woman starts saying everytihng's okay, he just gets angry sometimes, he almost never hits me.

Key up the radio right then and just say "Unit ### Start PD." That it. If you can get more out, fine, but you can do that sentence descretely and quickly maintaining your control of the victim and the scene.

my buddy is kinda stunned,

Like... he was vapor-locked stunned? Thats bad, that gets people killed in any profession. You have to keep professional and stay with the flow. Keep control of your scene.

but things get even worse when the husband comes out cuz he sees the ambulance lights. he asks what the f is going on and seems very angry.

Just a tip, and this is of course policy dependant here... If I am on a low traffic resdidential street, or I pull/back into a driveway, I will turn the lights off. Might leave my 4-ways on, but turn off the emergency lights. It helps with the "helpful neighbor" factor. Also lowers peoples anxiety on scene.

obviously this SCENE IS NOT SAFE. do you retreat to the ambulance and call PD asap, leaving the pt with an angry husband, or do you try to contain the situation and call PD?

First off... be honest with the man. I would probably say something like "Look, I'm not the police, we got sent out here for a sick person. I don't know whats going on here, you're wife has been injured and we are doing an examination on her." If he doesn't calm down or back off, then we would have to make the decision to leave the area or not. I would ask the woman if she wants to come to the ambulance with us. Obviously that may not go over well with the husband, but hopefully PD is arriving shortly and we could stall it out long enough for them to show up.

 

[EMDispatch]

Look at the radio. See the little orange button. Push the little orange button. Set off warning flares at dispatch. Hopefully my driver remembered to call out on location.

Love the little button...Turn down the radio, key it and after two attempts by dispatch to contact you...the cavalry is on the way.

It takes a lot at times to be comfortable defusing a situation through talk. I've had the unfortunate opportunity to do it many times at my other job, where I don't have an indiscreet panic button. The hardest part is trying to read a person and figure out what is most likely to deescalate the situation.

Starting with a calm/firm tone of voice, maintaining eye contact, and moving slowly and deliberately are the keys to success in my opinion.

 

[Pseudonymous]

Seems like the most important thing to remember is that EMTs are not cops. I would make it very clear that we are there to treat medical problems, not arrest you. If that guy wanted me out, I'd be out of there as quick as I could. Violence is not in the EMTs scope of practice.

I haven't finished my EMT-b class, so I don't have any street experience, but I do know my area, and know that a lot of poor areas like the one I live in, can harbor a lot of aggressive, unintelligent people, who sometimes are not very reasonable.

There's a reason your teachers pound scene safety into your mind during your class. In fact, my class is only half over, and I already want to vomit every time I hear the words "Scene safety"

 

[EMDispatch]

Seems like the most important thing to remember is that EMTs are not cops. I would make it very clear that we are there to treat medical problems, not arrest you."

Unfortunately for some people uniform=cop and that's all they see.

Scene safety should always be top priority, you should be prepared for any scene to devolve into an unsafe one. As our instructor said, "The only thing between you and the door should be air."

 

[Pseudonymous]

Unfortunately for some people uniform=cop and that's all they see.

Scene safety should always be top priority, you should be prepared for any scene to devolve into an unsafe one. As our instructor said, "The only thing between you and the door should be air."

I meant it's important for the EMTs to remember that they themselves, are not cops. It's not our job to protect people from their abusive lovers.

I understand that EMTs can look like police officers in situations like this. That's why I said the first thing I would say to the dude is that we aren't cops.

 

[EMDispatch]

Understood,

I've had many exam ?'s along those lines.

Essentially:
Patient is a victim of a crime, Do You?
A. Treat the victim
B. Interrogate them
C. Do something even more inappropriate

 

[MrBrown]

An interesting point was raised; icreasingly changes within society mean that whereas before Ambulance was left alone to do thier thing now they are being treated the sams as Police ... getting spat at/on, abused, assaulted and just generally disrespected.

While this is only by a small segment of society the number of times you will hear "hey bro we're not cops, see this? says ambulance and not police, we're not taking you to jail" seems to be going up.

In this situation a bit of yelling does not make a scene "unsafe" however.

Perhaps we could tweak what Alonzo in Training Day said ever so eloquently ... you want to go to jail or you wanna go hospital? LOL

 

[DrParasite]

How many people do you have there ... an ambulance crew plus a fire truck is what, six people?

agree 100%. However that's assuming u get a fire truck. 6 people (4 of which r firemen) will make someone think twice about starting something versus a 2 person ambulance crew. But many places won't get a fire truck for an assault call.

I know sop in my city is to send ems to a call where someone has been assaulted. PD does get sent but EMS often beats them the scene, and will often transport having PD meet the patient at the hospital for the report.

We try not to send ems crews to assaults in progress, but sometimes PD doesn't give us the proper information before we dispatch a unit (and yes, all of our ems dispatchers do ask)

 

[Bullets]

I meant it's important for the EMTs to remember that they themselves, are not cops. It's not our job to protect people from their abusive lovers.

I understand that EMTs can look like police officers in situations like this. That's why I said the first thing I would say to the dude is that we aren't cops.

I think it is, once that person is in our care, she is our responsibility, and I think its our job to protect them while they are on or care. We are their advocates until they get to a hospital. while I'd rather not fight a person on scene, it has happened and as mentioned previously, those kinds of men folks like a cheap suit when someone actually shows any kind of confidence.

 

[EMDispatch]

Protecting the patient by having them leave with you, or transporting on a suspected abuse case that has non-transport injuries is one thing.

When it escalates to a physical threat I can do more retreating and calling police than getting into situation that may result in my inability to get help due to incapacitation or death.

Doesn't mean protect the patient isn't a huge concern, but who's gonna save me?

 

[Outbac1]

I understand that EMTs can look like police officers in situations like this. That's why I said the first thing I would say to the dude is that we aren't cops.

That's why I like a white uniform shirt. Street cops don't wear white. I might have to point that out to them but they usually catch on pretty quick. That and how many cops bring luggage into your house.

 

[Bullets]

Protecting the patient by having them leave with you, or transporting on a suspected abuse case that has non-transport injuries is one thing.

When it escalates to a physical threat I can do more retreating and calling police than getting into situation that may result in my inability to get help due to incapacitation or death.

Doesn't mean protect the patient isn't a huge concern, but who's gonna save me?

My partner has my back, and I hope I can diffuse the situation before it gets to violence. I also hope me and my partners physical presence can convince some to not do anything stupid

 

[EMDispatch]

My partner has my back, and I hope I can diffuse the situation before it gets to violence. I also hope me and my partners physical presence can convince some to not do anything stupid

Unfortunately that's all any of us can do, but it doesn't always go our way. One of the most important things is trusting our "gut". If it doesn't feel right likely it's because the subconscious has picked up on cues you aren't aware of.

On a side note, The Gift of Fear is an excellent read on that subject.

 

[Bullets]

That's why I like a white uniform shirt. Street cops don't wear white. I might have to point that out to them but they usually catch on pretty quick. That and how many cops bring luggage into your house.

Around here, white shirts means police supervisors, sgt and above, plus our local leos wear light blue shirts