24 Hour (or more) shifts?

[firetender]

Started out working 5 days a week/24 hrs. per day and 10 years later was working 48 on 48 off.

The mitigating factor was in all cases, I was stationed at a quarters where I had the option to lay down and nap (or full on sleep) when needed.

My personal preference over those years (usually low-volume areas) was 72 on 72 off for the three days off in a row.

But I agree, during those times when things get real hairy and you have no choice but to keep working, it can get dangerous for you and others.

 

[Ridryder911]

But I agree, during those times when things get real hairy and you have no choice but to keep working, it can get dangerous for you and others.

Oh, I agree. The reason this is such an issue, management was wanting to require overtime even after putting in 72 hours a week. I challenged them because most were already putting over time and they wanted more. Push came to shove and now the Board is aware of the situation (so far, I have kept my job) and now has mandated no more than 48 hours straight for right now, and possibly later no more than 36 hours, due to the dangers r/t long hours.

Here we are portraying Safety and Health professionals, but yet we do not practice what we preach...

R/r 911

 

[Arkymedic]

ok, fair enough on the 72hr shift. everybody has done some marathon stuff here and there(i can remember state emergency scenes that i was on station for 3 days), but you made it seem like its was a regular thing.

but i still cant believe that you do 48hr shifts. im not saying your lying, im saying i cant fathom that theres actually a company stupid enough to allow their employees to do that.

In Arkansas (where he and I are) there are several services that do 48/48 or 48/72.

 

[Arkymedic]

ok, fair enough on the 72hr shift. everybody has done some marathon stuff here and there(i can remember state emergency scenes that i was on station for 3 days), but you made it seem like its was a regular thing.

but i still cant believe that you do 48hr shifts. im not saying your lying, im saying i cant fathom that theres actually a company stupid enough to allow their employees to do that.

At my service in OK we work 48s all the time for short staffing, trades, etc without question. If we work longer than a 48 we have to have supervisor permission. At the same time though when we work 24s, we are only paid for 16 hrs of it unless we are up for more than 3 hrs past midnight. So it can really be worse for all those that love to :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: about their service.

 

[Flight-LP]

At my service in OK we work 48s all the time for short staffing, trades, etc without question. If we work longer than a 48 we have to have supervisor permission. At the same time though when we work 24s, we are only paid for 16 hrs of it unless we are up for more than 3 hrs past midnight. So it can really be worse for all those that love to :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: about their service.

You're getting F#$*ed!!!!!!!

Do some research, recent rulings on FLSA standards have ruled in the favor of EMS employees due to the fact that despite not working, you are still required to be present on your employer's property. 48 hour shifts, 72 hour shifts, 48/48, 72/48, all of these absolutely suck. There is no reason why you should have to work yourself to death.

 

[Pittsburgh Proud]

Only thing I can say about 24's is they really are convenient so we can work two jobs....

 

[milhouse]

Only thing I can say about 24's is they really are convenient so we can work two jobs....

i couldnt agree with you more lol its not like were over paid or anything like that

 

[Pittsburgh Proud]

i couldnt agree with you more lol its not like were over paid or anything like that

That's where I was going with that. It sucks to do a 24 on a busy day but that leaves us the time to do what we have to do to make ends meet.

 

[emtmom]

I think it depends a lot of the nature of your service. 72's work for me, but I work for an interfacility transport company. We have a low call volume, but do distance transports that can put us on the road for over 12 hours rt. (Have you ever envied a patient with a foley?)

Management is sensitive to our sleep needs and will not consider our crew "available" until we have had a safe amount of sleep. When it's all over, I get 4 straight days with my family. I have become quite a nap-a-holic in my free time.

Some people gripe, but after surviving the NB years with 6 kids, this does not seem so bad.

EMTMOM

 

[CFRBryan347768]

I think it depends a lot of the nature of your service. 72's work for me, but I work for an interfacility transport company. We have a low call volume, but do distance transports that can put us on the road for over 12 hours rt. (Have you ever envied a patient with a foley?)

Management is sensitive to our sleep needs and will not consider our crew "available" until we have had a safe amount of sleep. When it's all over, I get 4 straight days with my family. I have become quite a nap-a-holic in my free time.

Some people gripe, but after surviving the NB years with 6 kids, this does not seem so bad.

EMTMOM

If it is a 12hr ride what do you do if they or you have to go bathroom or are hungry? im assuming theirs rules set inplace about food and bathroom?

 

[Jon]

If it is a 12hr ride what do you do if they or you have to go bathroom or are hungry? im assuming theirs rules set inplace about food and bathroom?

Usually there AREN'T rules.

I've done a 6-hour one where our driver pulled over in a truck stop and left me with the patient... (I didn't need to go anyway).

I've also done late night, long distance runs on 12 hour shifts where I've "hit the wall" after driving 4 hours and had to switch with my partner.

I can't imagine a 12-hour LDT... that is crazy.

Jon

 

[enjoynz]

If it is a 12hr ride what do you do if they or you have to go bathroom or are hungry? im assuming theirs rules set inplace about food and bathroom?

Well there is always the bed pan on the truck, and the drive thru takeaways!

If we go over a certain amount of hours (from memory I think it is 13 hours), the officer is stood down for a 9 hour break!
It's Government law and stands for all drivers of companies and services in New Zealand.

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[emtmom]

distance transport. 12 hour runs.

12 hours would be round trip so we only have the patient for 6 of those hours. Eating has to wait, but potty stops can be made at fire or police stations, or hospitals. When the pediatric psych facility is our destination, stops have to be carefully planned in advance, especaially if the patient is a run-risk. There is a very accomodating fire station at our half way point and we can call ahead to arrange a stop.

Of course, some of the guys say just discretely use the hand held urinals in the rig. Not only is that benieth my dignity, but that manuver is not as easy for a female.:blush:

EMTMOM

 

[paramedix]

We have a specialized department and we are only TWO guys covering the shifts.

My shifts are as follow:

Week 1 - Monday, Tuesday (48 hrs) on; Wednesday, Thursday (48 hrs) off; Friday, Saturday, Sunday (72 hrs) on.

Week 2 - Wednesday, Thursday (48 hrs) on and the rest off, then starting Week 1 again.

At least I am allowed to sleep at home during the nights, but if you busy you busy... We average about 10-13 calls-outs per 12 hrs...

Hopefully this will be changing soon!!!

 

[Ops Paramedic]

It is difficuilt to calculate the hours worked vs offtime of all the people who posted, but it would be interisting to see. We work 196 hours a month on a 4 shift system, whereby we work 2 day shifts (7-7), 2 night shifts (7-7) and then 4 days off. And you??

 

[milhouse]

you know i dont think i would want to work in EMS if i had to work a 12 hour shift or an 8 hour shift. i know one thing is for sure is that we dont get paid enough to work 12's or 8's now if i would have taken the job at acaidain i would have been making 11.20 an hour working 12's now thats enough to work 12's atleast compared to what i make here in AR

i feel that there would be a major staffing problem if there was a law passed stating that EMS personnel couldnt work more than 12 hours at a time i think there would be a lot of people quiting i know i think i would consider it unless there was a major pay increase because then thats that less of a chance for me to get a second job working those 3-4 days just to get 40 hrs and that would mean i would only have 1 day a wk off working a second job.

i really dont think EMS will ever be able to go to anything less than 24 hour shifts except in your heavy call volume areas and they thus pay more.

 

[VentMedic]

Considering EMT-B has only an initial education investment of about 110 - 130 hours, $11.20 is an excellent wage. Many minimum wage jobs require more education and training hours than that.

Advance your education and advance your pay. It is not that many more hours to a Paramedic cert.

Many places are already changing to 12 hours shifts. As more tragic events occur, more agencies will be switching as the public becomes more aware of how tired the providers are that are serving them and the risks involved with the increased potential for medical errors or MVC.

 

[Ridryder911]

you know i dont think i would want to work in EMS if i had to work a 12 hour shift or an 8 hour shift. i know one thing is for sure is that we dont get paid enough to work 12's or 8's now if i would have taken the job at acaidain i would have been making 11.20 an hour working 12's now thats enough to work 12's atleast compared to what i make here in AR

i feel that there would be a major staffing problem if there was a law passed stating that EMS personnel couldnt work more than 12 hours at a time i think there would be a lot of people quiting i know i think i would consider it unless there was a major pay increase because then thats that less of a chance for me to get a second job working those 3-4 days just to get 40 hrs and that would mean i would only have 1 day a wk off working a second job.

i really dont think EMS will ever be able to go to anything less than 24 hour shifts except in your heavy call volume areas and they thus pay more.

Couple of faulty things, I believe we should as a profession agree not to accept. One can make $25.00 and still be poor. It all goes upon the costs of living in the area. I know of Basic EMT's making $45,000 yr, but when the costs of living is double or triple it does not matter.

Second, why should we ask anyone to have to work part time? One of the definitions of a professional is, not having a salary that requires an extra income. People quit EMS everyday because they have to work more days than they are scheduled off. No time to be with family, as well as we are seeing poor mental and physical health from extreme work hours and related stress.

It is silly to state, "I need to work more hours, so I can make less pay". Does that even sound logical? Yet, we in EMS do it all the time. The excuse being,.." Well they would have to pay better salaries.".... Yep, they would and should and can! All other healthcare and even emergency workers get it, why not EMS? If we are so special, and the public needs us (in which they do) they need to realize they will have to pay to get us or do without! The time of just because you want to help your fellow man one should get screwed over is gone!

Pay will have to come up in all areas. The time of each town having its own EMS will be over as well. Consolidation of EMS will have to occur (similar to hospitals) to stay existent, volunteer services will ever increasing taxed upon. Thery will not be able to keep up with the demand. The prediction; and so far it has held true, is that run volumes will double within 5-7 yrs. and possibly triple within 3 yrs. This is not science fiction, but facts. Look at ER's in your area... even rural and urban areas area already getting crowded and most hospitals have a waiting list or holding for a bed in the hospital. The crisis has not yet even happened and we are already seeing it...

There is no way that EMS will be able to work extreme hours; nor should we as truly caring individuals even should consider of placing ourselves and our patients in jeopardy. Studies have demonstrated, after the eighth call; Paramedics critical thinking skills drop almost by 50%. Hence the reason many EMS are evaluating and going to 8/8 shifts. Eight calls or eight hours, which ever comes first. Yes, the pay will have to off set the hours, and yes EMS will have to be reimbursed appropriately to be able to pay their employees. Hence, again the reason for increased education levels = increased reimbursements = increased pay.

We as a profession should never settle for anything less than we are worth. Yes, there are methods to increase our pay, the public will have to cough it up. Just alike they do for firefighters, troopers, physicians and even for nursing. Then and only then, we will see a decrease in those leaving EMS and longevity.

R/r 911

 

[Arkymedic]

Considering EMT-B has only an initial education investment of about 110 - 130 hours, $11.20 is an excellent wage. Many minimum wage jobs require more education and training hours than that.

Advance your education and advance your pay. It is not that many more hours to a Paramedic cert.

Many places are already changing to 12 hours shifts. As more tragic events occur, more agencies will be switching as the public becomes more aware of how tired the providers are that are serving them and the risks involved with the increased potential for medical errors or MVC.

:censored::censored::censored::censored: I barely make that as a medic Vent lol

 

[Arkymedic]

Couple of faulty things, I believe we should as a profession agree not to accept. One can make $25.00 and still be poor. It all goes upon the costs of living in the area. I know of Basic EMT's making $45,000 yr, but when the costs of living is double or triple it does not matter.

Second, why should we ask anyone to have to work part time? One of the definitions of a professional is, not having a salary that requires an extra income. People quit EMS everyday because they have to work more days than they are scheduled off. No time to be with family, as well as we are seeing poor mental and physical health from extreme work hours and related stress.

It is silly to state, "I need to work more hours, so I can make less pay". Does that even sound logical? Yet, we in EMS do it all the time. The excuse being,.." Well they would have to pay better salaries.".... Yep, they would and should and can! All other healthcare and even emergency workers get it, why not EMS? If we are so special, and the public needs us (in which they do) they need to realize they will have to pay to get us or do without! The time of just because you want to help your fellow man one should get screwed over is gone!

Pay will have to come up in all areas. The time of each town having its own EMS will be over as well. Consolidation of EMS will have to occur (similar to hospitals) to stay existent, volunteer services will ever increasing taxed upon. Thery will not be able to keep up with the demand. The prediction; and so far it has held true, is that run volumes will double within 5-7 yrs. and possibly triple within 3 yrs. This is not science fiction, but facts. Look at ER's in your area... even rural and urban areas area already getting crowded and most hospitals have a waiting list or holding for a bed in the hospital. The crisis has not yet even happened and we are already seeing it...

There is no way that EMS will be able to work extreme hours; nor should we as truly caring individuals even should consider of placing ourselves and our patients in jeopardy. Studies have demonstrated, after the eighth call; Paramedics critical thinking skills drop almost by 50%. Hence the reason many EMS are evaluating and going to 8/8 shifts. Eight calls or eight hours, which ever comes first. Yes, the pay will have to off set the hours, and yes EMS will have to be reimbursed appropriately to be able to pay their employees. Hence, again the reason for increased education levels = increased reimbursements = increased pay.

We as a profession should never settle for anything less than we are worth. Yes, there are methods to increase our pay, the public will have to cough it up. Just alike they do for firefighters, troopers, physicians and even for nursing. Then and only then, we will see a decrease in those leaving EMS and longevity.

R/r 911

Very well stated Rid.