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Ridryder911 said:
. political change comes from within from power of either of the masses or financial world. R/r 911
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Agreed. I would just like to add that most elections are won or lost by a margin smaller than the registered voters who didn't bother to vote. We turn out in great numbers to vote on issues that hit us personally in the wallet.
 
good men doing nothing Bossycow? now where did i hear that?

yet that's been the score up until this last election, where the swing of power went the other way , almost as radically as it had in the last 6 years

and i'm amused at being called a liberal here, for lamenting that pendulum's swing to the right. It only proves youngsters and revisonists are buying the fascist tactics imparted to us by changing the meaning of the term

again, they have no concept of freedom being a common denominator, ironically foisting our nation as the beacon of democracy, as our leaders insiduosley rob us of it, impecable social engineering really...

so for those of you who's teeth gnash at our jackbooted contingent, i'll leave you with a few quotes to knaw on from our floudering fathers here;

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
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If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison
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~S~
 
Who called you a liberal? I remember we had a discussion a long time ago on another topic, and you had some very non-liberal views...

I don't see the US as a beacon of Democracy, but it is not a police state. You use terms like "fascist" "police state" and "robbing us of all freedom" freely without much basis...other than stating isolated cases that somehow prove that all our liberties are being taken away...

All those quotes and emotional language are all good to hear, but be practical...Do you really advocate no stricter rules, even if it means a much greater chance of attacks, etc?

And finally, to keep this conversation from going over the same things....

I pose a question to you Stevo, how do you feel we should tackle the problem of terrorism/attacks in our country??
 
The trouble buying a gun in CA is due to the over-concentration of tree-hugging liberals in that area. But keep voting Democrat, you wont have to worry about it.
"how's the element of collusion set with you on our longest war (drugs), producing over 2 million non violent inmates? note that other countries have let go the strict standards we have, decriminalizing minor offenses "

Thailand cuts your hand off if you steal. Any idea what the crime rate is in Thailand. (No I don't want to live in Thailand, but decriminalizing offenses is not the answer.)

Only in the US can someone illegally enter the county and illegally enter onto your private property. Then when a landowner holds the law breakers and call the police, the criminals sue (backed by Souther Poverty Law Center) and be awarded the landowners ranch.
 
I pose a question to you Stevo, how do you feel we should tackle the problem of terrorism/attacks in our country??
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a decent Q VinBin, and one we will eventually confront here .

first and foremost, we need to be honest with ourselves, our motives, our goals, our values. as it stands now, we have not been. We were once the light of the world, but those in power that would impose that torch of freedom abroad, while violating it at home are soon going to go down here.

secondly, there has to be a world consortium, not some unilateral cowboy spouting us/them rethoric, that is a recipee for disaster. our foriegn policy got us into this, and will be what gets us out of it

third, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. it is a war of hearts and minds that no amount of military might will mitigate in generations. the people, any people(s) only follow what they feel is righteous. gaining that faction is the only road to peace

~S~
 
Stevo said:
good point

what would be the definition of Police State ?

how's being only second to China in incarcerations per capita?

how's the element of collusion set with you on our longest war (drugs), producing over 2 million non violent inmates? note that other countries have let go the strict standards we have, decriminalizing minor offenses

the advent (around 20 yrs ago) of mandatory sentencing,federal guidlines,and the increased federalization of crimes in itself had a major impact here

and lastly, the privitization of our penal system is becoming a cash cow, it's become a friggin' business in itself

somehow 'let freedom ring' doesn't quite carry as it once did ....

~S~
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Not only that but the legal system is also stacked against you to increase the odds that you are convicted and go to prison for the same reason: they make money off you being in prison. Anyone who's had to go to court in the past couple of decades has probably noticed that they were considered guilty until proven innocent instead of the other way around.

Plus I've talked to people so far who live in Germany, Netherlands, Canada, and Australia and the U.S. so far takes the cake in number of police deployed on the streets as well as having the most hostile police.
 
Stevo said:
a decent Q VinBin, and one we will eventually confront here .

first and foremost, we need to be honest with ourselves, our motives, our goals, our values. as it stands now, we have not been. We were once the light of the world, but those in power that would impose that torch of freedom abroad, while violating it at home are soon going to go down here.

secondly, there has to be a world consortium, not some unilateral cowboy spouting us/them rethoric, that is a recipee for disaster. our foriegn policy got us into this, and will be what gets us out of it

third, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. it is a war of hearts and minds that no amount of military might will mitigate in generations. the people, any people(s) only follow what they feel is righteous. gaining that faction is the only road to peace

~S~
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speak on brother speak on. bring the troops home.:)
 
yes , well... unfortunatly the
people involved are speaking, but not being listened to, nor is much of what they're saying in the public limelight Mercy4Angels

Michael Powell's timely deregulation of the media insured that $$$= freedom of speech

very much a prerequisite of a police state

premedtim points out perspective;
Plus I've talked to people so far who live in Germany, Netherlands, Canada, and Australia and the U.S. so far takes the cake in number of police deployed on the streets as well as having the most hostile police.
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more a war on civil liberties that a wot would seem to exist....
AP: 'Vicious killers' from Guantanamo Bay routinely freed by other countries

~S~
 
Stevo said:
......
first and foremost, we need to be honest with ourselves, our motives, our goals, our values. as it stands now, we have not been.....

~S~
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Whose values? Whose goals? It seems everybody votes based on what the canidate can do for THEM- what's in it for ME? If I state MY values, I hear "who are you to lord your values over mine?", etc.
People cry "tolerance!", yet they are intolerant

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything", the saying goes, yet what I stand for, or you, or your neighbor, whoever- each has their own values, their own morality, their own "guide" of what is right or wrong.

Ridryder911
No a reality check... really how much power do you really think you have?.. There is a difference between apathy and understanding of real life...-------
That is why I am amused by tree huggers and movie stars, old liberal college professors actually think they "make the difference".. on what they think or say. It apparently has not nor ever has... political change comes from within from power of either of the masses or financial world.
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The masses can be taught by the professors. The thinking of generations are moulded by the teachers, the authors, the purveyors of information. To change a society, you change their thinking. Take them over from within- the Trojan Horse. Do it in movies and TV, because after all, it's only entertainment- not to be taken seriously, right? [/sarcasm]

Disagree? Enlighten me! :c)
Eddy ~~~
 
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"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything", the saying goes, yet what I stand for, or you, or your neighbor, whoever- each has their own values, their own morality, their own "guide" of what is right or wrong.
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very true Eddy the short answer would be here, this is what we've all signed on for collectively as Americans;


I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiances and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereign, to whom I or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic....

inasmuch as i do acknowledge the constitution as a living document (i.e.-changes will be made) i do not take kindly to those in power that would violate it in any way due to the price paid for it...

a few examples might be the Orwellian survelliance we've been subject to via illegal wiretapping

or possibly an AG that would call the Geneva convention 'quaint', while incarcerations take place unconstitutionally, not to mention waterboarding (rendition is iirc, the nice PC term) Any one of us could disappear tommorrow via the way things stand now {administrators take note!}

The plain fact that we have the first VP in history being supeona'd for the pack of lies they've foisted upon us should be an indicator here that there still exists some level of accountability and transparency , all is not lost down their 1984 kaliedescope of sins

to summarize in a {bumper sticker/sound byte} phrase;

if your not pissed off, your not paying attention....

~S~
 
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