Body Armor - Stab Resistant and/or Bullet Resistant

[mikeylikesit]

So this question is posed to anyone in EMS,FF or Hospitals; do any of you, wear a stab proof vest while working. Now i know that i am going to hear a lot of "why would you need one, it's time to find a new place to work" but i wear one both at the hospital where i work as well as on the rig. This thing has saved my skin more times than i can count (one person tried to stab me with a Yankauer tip once) My question to you all is, do you wear them? why or why not?

 

[Jon]

Umm... don't you mean "stab resistant"???

I'd rather wear a bullet-resistant one. Getting shot has a greater likelihood of killing me.

I added a poll

 

[Hastings]

I've worked in both Detroit and Flint and have never worn any protective vest. Wasn't necessary as long as I always did a solid safety/scene assessment.

 

[ffemt8978]

I've worked in both Detroit and Flint and have never worn any protective vest. Wasn't necessary as long as I always did a solid safety/scene assessment.

I don't care how solid your safety/scene assessment is, crap happens that you can't plan for or expect. Are you willing to bet your life on it?

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=7757

 

[mikeylikesit]

Jon, i understand your concern with the bullet proof vest, i how ever never really thought it too necessary to get a level IV vest because the chances of a person getting into the back of my rig or hospital are slim but not always guaranteed. i would really like to be able to afford one but it is not going to happen. the reason i wear stab resistant is cause of needle and knives that i have encountered more than a hand full of times and i don't even work in a dangerous setting. Like FFEMT said i am not willing to bet my life on the assumption that no one would try and hurt me on duty.

 

[Jon]

You don't need a level IV unless you forsee yourself coming under rifle fire.

However, if you are wearing a vest, it should defeat, at a minimum, the ammunition that the local PD carries... that is the gun that is on your scenes the most often, right? II and IIIa should both work. IIIa is a little heavier, and probably can't hurt.

It has been a while since I've worn my vest. None of my co-workers wear one, but I'm starting to think about it again.

 

[mikeylikesit]

You don't need a level IV unless you forsee yourself coming under rifle fire.

However, if you are wearing a vest, it should defeat, at a minimum, the ammunition that the local PD carries... that is the gun that is on your scenes the most often, right? II and IIIa should both work. IIIa is a little heavier, and probably can't hurt.

It has been a while since I've worn my vest. None of my co-workers wear one, but I'm starting to think about it again.

most level II and IIa and IIIa vests are only woven to protect against high velosity blunt impact and are not woven to prevent penetration. i think that your right though, that it should be atleast at the minimum of the PD. I wish that the thought didn't even have to cross an EMS or hospital workers mind though.

 

[Hastings]

I don't care how solid your safety/scene assessment is, crap happens that you can't plan for or expect. Are you willing to bet your life on it?

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=7757

Yes, I am willing to bet my life on it. I've been in such unexpected circumstances. But I was taught the skills to recognize a developing situation early and retreat before it gets to the point of a weapon being pulled or used. There are always signs before it happens.

 

[MMiz]

I've gone back and forth on this one, but I think you'll find that in a few years most EMS agencies will issue body armor, similar to police. I never had a close call, and 99% of the people I've talked to never had a close call, but it's that 1% that gets you.

There are police officers working in Detroit that will work their entire careers without firing a single shot or being fired at. There are EMS units in Detroit that have been taken hostage and shot at, recently too! If you read the Office Down Memorial Site you'll find that tons of officers in great communities are shot and killed, mostly in domestic violence cases. How many times have you been called to a domestic volence? I've been to quite a few.

Lastly, without proper restraints in the back of an ambulance, body armor may save your life in the case of a crash.

That said, I never wore it, and only knew one guy in our small agency (25 units) that did. He got harassed so much that he stopped wearing it after a few months.

 

[LE-EMT]

Hastings, I am a former swat trained police officer. I will assure you that there are instances where you won't always see it coming. there are times when there are no warning signs. Granted my job was slightly different then yours. But never the less if there was always a sign that something bad was about to happen before it did. Then I will guarentee you that probably 90 percent of the WORLDS Police officer deaths would have never happened. I wouldn't have two bullet holes and 3 knife wounds in me.

You were taught skills?????? Did some one teach you how to read minds???????? Because if they did, I want their name number their email web site and pager, and this individual should go into business for himself he would be a BILLIONAIRE. could teach all the cops and soldiers how to read minds and not get shot or blown up. I know this is a little eccentric but seriously think about it. I also know that I am different then most people. I am a crap magnet.

question at hand. I used to wear a vest daily.... Ummmm Shot threw the vest and under for those who want to know. 9 mm missed my vest by my hip. ak-47 round threw both sides upper left shoulder/chest area. Kife one in the lower back near my right hip, right bicep, and left forearm. Last two were defensive saw it coming just not in enough time to not get cut.

as far as EMS wearing a vest ballistic or other I can't see wearing one all the time but I could see when you are out of the truck on a high risk call or dealing with a high risk pt. Understanding that any call can become high risk at any given time it makes it hard to say when it would be applicable to wear. I can't say that I wouldn't nor can I say that I would strap on ever day or every call of every day for that matter.

 

[Hastings]

Responding to a scene as a police officer is a lot different than responding as a paramedic.

Namely because by the time the latter comes by, said officer has already secured the scene and searched everyone for weapons.

Therefore, I'm all for police wearing armor. It's just not necessary for the medics as it is for that first responder.

 

[LE-EMT]

I understand that and I have to agree with you there 100 percent. but in your prior post you would have everyone believe that you are some kind of super future seeing person who will never ever be hurt by another person. wait until someone wraps that stetho around your neck in the back of that ambo. you can never be sure what some one is gonna do is what my point was. so if a stab vest makes you feel better about not getting stabbed then by all means strap on. is it necessary???? no but it definitely can't hurt.

 

[Hastings]

First of all, any medic foolish enough to wear his/her stethoscope around their neck like some ER TV show deserves it.

Second, how is a vest or any protective gear going to help if said patient suddenly attempts to strangle you with said stethoscope?

 

[LE-EMT]

Yes, I am willing to bet my life on it. I've been in such unexpected circumstances. But I was taught the skills to recognize a developing situation early and retreat before it gets to the point of a weapon being pulled or used. There are always signs before it happens.

I see the word weapon not knife, edged weapon, fire arm, or blunt force weapon...
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
weap·on Audio Help /ˈwɛpən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wep-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.
2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim

If you would like by all means please go to dictionary.com and search weapon. it only illustrates my point.

 

[Ridryder911]

In my 31 years I have not had a knife pulled on me, but I have a gun pulled on me. A vest would not helped as it was placed to my head...

There are areas that definitely need more than others, can we predict ..no. Do I foresee them being used.. yes, in certain areas but not standard issue. When in reality more medics are killed by motorist at a MVA.

R/r 911

 

[ErinCooley]

There really isnt an option for me..

I don't and nobody in my company does, we arent in a great neighborhood by any stretch of the imagination though. Yes, parts of the city is great, there is also a large area that is unsafe.

 

[Alexakat]

None of us do...but we should. Some of our run area is really scary. I have been on scene & had that twinge of "something feels weird", but have never had anything happen.

One of our squad members has had a gun pulled on him.

 

[Bosco578]

Our Dept. issues Body Armour to any staff that wish to have one. They are Level II,the same as our PD. We are not issued external carriers,so any staff that want one must order and pay for it themselves.

I personally have always worn my vest whilst on duty. My choice. I have been to lots of "secure" scenes that suddenly became Un-secure. I have had Knifes pulled on me (within striking distance) Thankfully I have not had to experince what LE-EMT has.

I have had my share of "routine" medical calls where family members for one reason or another become hostile. I think it's one of those things that if you own or have the option of being issued a vest (Stab resitent/Ballistic/both) if YOU feel better about wearing one,who cares what anyone else thinks,at the end of the day it's your choice.

That being said I wear a condom at work incase blood leaks through my pants and gets in my pee hole.....

 

[mikeylikesit]

Our Dept. issues Body Armour to any staff that wish to have one. They are Level II,the same as our PD. We are not issued external carriers,so any staff that want one must order and pay for it themselves.

I personally have always worn my vest whilst on duty. My choice. I have been to lots of "secure" scenes that suddenly became Un-secure. I have had Knifes pulled on me (within striking distance) Thankfully I have not had to experince what LE-EMT has.

I have had my share of "routine" medical calls where family members for one reason or another become hostile. I think it's one of those things that if you own or have the option of being issued a vest (Stab resitent/Ballistic/both) if YOU feel better about wearing one,who cares what anyone else thinks,at the end of the day it's your choice.

That being said I wear a condom at work incase blood leaks through my pants and gets in my pee hole.....

Exactly, just because the LEO's are not on scene doesn't mean that the person is not dangerous. It could be a gang member that oh so happened to fall. You never know and don't know when it's coming. Plus hypodermic resistance is always nice when going over the bumps.

 

[BossyCow]

I don't, but not because I think my neighborhood is incapable of producing a violent pt. Given the likelihood of the event happening on one of the two hundred or so calls I run a year, where a violent pt gets past a LEO safety check and I am injured, its just gonna be 'one of those things'. I think I stand a higher risk of getting hit by a car on a scene, hit by a car crossing the street off duty, or developing a non-work related health condition that could take my life.

I do what I can to migiate any of it happening. I do wear PPE, because its pretty easy to do and can mimize the chance of my being infected by a pt. But, to start every call with the donning of body armor, going into each call with the first thought being, "This patient might hurt me" is not a mindset I'm willing to put on.

I've been in a few edgy situations where the sphincter factor was a bit high, but they have resolved well. If I end up paying a price for this attitude... well... that sucks but none of us get out of here alive. It's a risk, I agree, but to me an acceptable risk. I don't believe the vest would give me a sense of protection, and I would be concerned that it may lead to a feeling of invulnerability that may lead to less caution practiced on scene, because.. "Hey, I'm protected, I have a vest!"

I think its a personal decision based on what makes you comfortable, much like the Yes or No debate on gloves on the other forum. We take risks we feel are in the 'acceptable' column which is often determined by a purely subjective standard.