This makes me mad

[broken stretcher]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ng-911-call-heroin-overdose-article-1.1796455




"anarchist" shop owner calls 911 for one of the friendly neighbor hood diabetics over dosing in the bathroom... shop owner tells 911 that FD/EMS can come in but no cops will come in or "there will be a bigger problem". So everyone shows up and the cop tells EMS that its their call if they want PD then PD will come in... the medics said they were fine without PD and went in alone... maybe I'm loco but I'm not going on any OD without PD going in first... in fact our MDT will blink with the message ***STAGE IN THE AREA, AWAIT PD ARRIVAL***

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

The majority of ours come out at Stage at your Discretion, except for shootings stabbings, assault in progress. This would be one of those discretionary ones. Maybe try and obtain some info at the door with PD present, and if it seems safe go for it. Worst case scenario PD is still at the door. Shop owner wants you there, you're not unwelcome, I'd be uncomfortable but I'd still probably go ahead in.

 

[Handsome Robb]

The simple fact that he said that means I'll be waiting for the police department.

I caught flack from a lot of people for staging on an OD that arrested while we were waiting for LE.

My partner and I both want to go home at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

 

[broken stretcher]

The simple fact that he said that means I'll be waiting for the police department.

I caught flack from a lot of people for staging on an OD that arrested while we were waiting for LE.

My partner and I both want to go home at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.

whelp call me selfish but sorry the OD arrested, but you and your partner didn't feel a thing.. you went home safe and so did your partner and thats all that counts. Sorry you chose to overdose today... Im waiting for PD. and PD will be following me until we get to the ER. end of story

 

[TransportJockey]

whelp call me selfish but sorry the OD arrested, but you and your partner didn't feel a thing.. you went home safe and so did your partner and thats all that counts. Sorry you chose to overdose today... Im waiting for PD. and PD will be following me until we get to the ER. end of story

That is my thinking with it

 

[Drax]

whelp call me selfish but sorry the OD arrested, but you and your partner didn't feel a thing.. you went home safe and so did your partner and thats all that counts. Sorry you chose to overdose today... Im waiting for PD. and PD will be following me until we get to the ER. end of story

Any place that police are not welcome is not a place I'm going.

 

[AtlasFlyer]

Any place that police are not welcome is not a place I'm going.

This.

 

[Handsome Robb]

whelp call me selfish but sorry the OD arrested, but you and your partner didn't feel a thing.. you went home safe and so did your partner and thats all that counts. Sorry you chose to overdose today... Im waiting for PD. and PD will be following me until we get to the ER. end of story

Yep. I felt bad, I'd be lying if I said I didn't. Our operator told me they heard him seize then no more snoring when it stopped like 2 minutes before PD marked on scene and we had been there for about 12 minutes waiting. I didn't make him OD but my decision, as the Paramedic in Charge, to wait now means those little girls in the living room no longer have a father. I know it's not my fault but I did have to work through it a bit. I'll do it the same way every time though, because like you said, our safety is paramount.

I don't need PD to follow me, I restrain all my ODs, but except in a select few situations I won't enter without them.

I have gone into scenes with fire before when they told us it was our discretion. We AWOL usually talk it over and decide if my 2-3 man ambulance plus their 4-5 person crew would dissuade any fiestyness or if we need to wait for the peeps with the guns and vests.

 

[Merck]

Interesting. I've attended many an overdose and while police are sometimes in attendance it is certainly not a requirement for them to attend, nor have I felt the need. A heroin overdose is not dangerous by definition. Safety is the responsibility of the attending crew first and foremost. If you don't feel safe, then by all means don't enter. On the other hand, I've rarely been assaulted by an an unconscious patient.

For the article in question, what's the problem? You'd wait for the police? I'd go in and wake the poor :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: up. Involving the police, especially in the context of that call, is only going to serve to escalate a situation, not resolve one. And who's scared of a hipster in Portland?

And,

I restrain all my ODs

Seriously?

 

[Angel]

disclaimer: this is not to be argumentative or anything like that. i am just curious about the circumstances, but
if the OD was in cardiac arrest, what did you need PD for? the person who called?
I figure the patient is not at all dangerous at that point.

so far, ive only had PD on one 'OD/psych' call (mind you im NEW) and they didnt do a thing, pt went of his own will after some carefully worded conversation.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Seriously?

Yea most of them. Now if granny accidentally OD'd on her pain meds and that's well communicated to our dispatcher I'll go in without PD and probably won't sedate her unless someone tells me something that would give me a reason to.

They get retrained before they wake up then if they come all the way around and aren't going agro I remove them quickly. We use soft restraints, I'm not fighting them into them and they're not so tight that they're causing trauma or impeding circulation. I'd argue that it's better practice to do it that way than to risk a fight if they're mad about you waking them up and having to re-sedate them and creating a polypharm situation or having to fight them into restraints.

 

[NomadicMedic]

I never restrain ODs, and it seems like I'm doing a couple a week.

Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I never restrain ODs, and it seems like I'm doing a couple a week.

Different strokes, I guess.

Different areas too. In three years of EMS nearly every assault I've seen happen against a provider, either myself, my partner or fire has been on OD calls. Not all of them but most.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Yeah... We stage on all ODs, unless we happen to roll up before they tell me to stage. Which happens pretty often. (But, the unconscious person in the gas station bathroom is usually a giveaway...)
I find a little snort of Narcan doesn't wake them up in Aggro beast mode. They're usually just groggy for most of the ride.

Now, bath salts ODs. Those crazy folks just need to be tased.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Yeah... We stage on all ODs, unless we happen to roll up before they tell me to stage. Which happens pretty often. (But, the unconscious person in the gas station bathroom is usually a giveaway...)
I find a little snort of Narcan doesn't wake them up in Aggro beast mode. They're usually just groggy for most of the ride.

Now, bath salts ODs. Those crazy folks just need to be tased.

Heroin/opiate ODs are pretty tame I do agree there. We get everything here, heroin, bath salts, meth, PCP, spice. It tends to rotate every couple of months. The DEA will nab the supplier and it'll change from heroin to meth then rinse and repeat to PCP, so on and so forth. It's sad, we'll get a bad bath of heroin about once a year that ends up killing a bunch of young people :-/

I had a string of GHB ODs before I got hurt, that was a trip to see someone go from GCS of like 7 to 14-15 then back down again.

 

[broken stretcher]

disclaimer: this is not to be argumentative or anything like that. i am just curious about the circumstances, but
if the OD was in cardiac arrest, what did you need PD for? the person who called?
I figure the patient is not at all dangerous at that point.

so far, ive only had PD on one 'OD/psych' call (mind you im NEW) and they didnt do a thing, pt went of his own will after some carefully worded conversation.

I don't know where you work, but where I work the drug users generally don't hang out with the upstanding citizens... usually their friends that they're doing the drugs with are easily as dangerous and high as they are... PD is your best friend. remember that. remember who told you that

 

[Carlos Danger]

Interesting. I've attended many an overdose and while police are sometimes in attendance it is certainly not a requirement for them to attend, nor have I felt the need. A heroin overdose is not dangerous by definition. Safety is the responsibility of the attending crew first and foremost. If you don't feel safe, then by all means don't enter. On the other hand, I've rarely been assaulted by an an unconscious patient.

Exactly.

But you have to understand that in America, people have been brainwashed to think that people who use drugs are inherently violent and dangerous, and that the presence of the police guarantees safety for everyone.

 

[broken stretcher]

Exactly.

But you have to understand that in America, people have been brainwashed to think that people who use drugs are inherently violent and dangerous, and that the presence of the police guarantees safety for everyone.

It doesn't guarantee safety for everyone but they're job is to use force to control people IF needed. its not my job to wrestle an out of control pt.

 

[Carlos Danger]

It doesn't guarantee safety for everyone but they're job is to use force to control people IF needed. its not my job to wrestle an out of control pt.

Exactly what I was talking about.

 

[medicsb]

I know of ambulances frequently going on scene for ODs without PD in a couple of the "most dangerous" cities on the east coast. For one service, there is usually an engine company already on scene and the other will usually be accompanied by a supervisor and followed up with medics (this could have changed in the past few years). PD on scene is luxury in both places and not routinely sent unless violence is involved. When I was assaulted, it was by a diabetic (PD already on scene). Another scene I was on where an EMT was assaulted was an overdose, but guess what, PD was already there - didn't keep the patient from slugging the EMT. I'd be curious if there is any correlation between dispatched complaint and assault. Anyone know of any data/studies?