Thank GOD I'm alive!

[TatuICU]

He is the one who brought up homeopathic medicine.

It doesn't matter if it's "flawed" logic. This isn't a court of law so there is no burden of proof, we are talking about people's feelings and faith.

So I stand by what I said.

Logic is applied to courts of law for logic's sake. Not the other way around. So I'm not sure what your point is. And burdens of proof apply to all scientific realms. "Faith" is a way for some to explain away scientific questions and is therefor subject to the same evidentiary scrutiny as any other hypothesis, hence the ongoing argument between militant theists and militant athiests. I am neither. My point was made in this thread quite some time ago. The rest of this has gone off the rails. Again, as I said before, this thread has ZERO to do with religion.

 

[akflightmedic]

He is the one who brought up homeopathic medicine.

It doesn't matter if it's "flawed" logic. This isn't a court of law so there is no burden of proof, we are talking about people's feelings and faith.

So I stand by what I said.

Ok, so unicorns exist, Santa exists, demons exist, little green men, elves, dragons...on and on it goes...all because you cannot prove they don't...I like where this is going as it opens endless possibilities.

The distinct difference between believers and scientists/non believers is the latter group loves being challenged. Make me prove what I say is right--I love being proven wrong as it makes me work harder, I learn something and it means I am using my brain filled with logic and reason. I question everything...even stuff that is already proven and accepted I still had to question it until I grasped it. Some topics are left untouched (quantum anything-except Quantum Leap-great series) but the majority of things within my average life and relevant to me--those will be questioned and challenged especially when it impacts personal choices or activities.

If you challenge a believer, it is deemed rude or unacceptable. Why? Why do they get a free pass on fairy tales? See the issue? Especially when they cannot prove any of their claims, yet all around them there is an abundance of evidence for most things in life.

So while your position may stand Sasha (yes been a while since I riled you up), it is greatly flawed unless you can explain to me why all the other things I listed do not exist either.

 

[Aidey]

So while your position may stand Sasha (yes been a while since I riled you up), it is greatly flawed unless you can explain to me why all the other things I listed do not exist either.

And explain why it is OK to tell people those things don't exist but not tell people that you don't think god exists.

 

[Vetitas86]

From a purely philosophical standpoint...

The existence of God can only be proven by one thing. Death. Anything else can be explained by malfunctions in the brain, etc.

So pulling either the religion or atheism card is a fallacy, as is calling atheism a religion. By definition, its the lack thereof.

While hardly a bible thumper, I do believe in a higher power. Whether or not it (sex-based ideals taken aside) it intervenes is a purely personal belief. Sure, others may not respect you for being an atheist, Christian, Muslim, or Witch Doctor. Doesn't mean you can't be the better person and accept their beliefs as their own, as long as it doesn't endanger them or others (Whether religion can be seen as mentally/emotionally damaging is a different conversation entirely).

Point being, no, I'm not EMS yet. But I've worked in health care. Whatever gets people through the crap in their lives and may possibly give them the strength to live through whatever problem there is - don't knock it. Keeping them alive is half your job, half theirs. If they give up, then there's no saving them, not even from themselves.

And, as an aside, look at it this way...regardless of what you personally believe, there's a chance of you being wrong. And as far as the existence of God goes, it's 50/50. So that being said, people who lean too far one way or the other irk me. Respecting others shouldn't be a choice. Religion is. Treat it that way.

 

[akflightmedic]

And, as an aside, look at it this way...regardless of what you personally believe, there's a chance of you being wrong. And as far as the existence of God goes, it's 50/50. So that being said, people who lean too far one way or the other irk me. Respecting others shouldn't be a choice. Religion is. Treat it that way.

Great response but if you are going to invoke Pascal's Wager (the 50/50 comment) then you have to give consideration to the 1000s of other gods which predate the Christian god and you also invalidate all the gods currently ruling beside the Christian god on this earth.

So it is not 50/50, it is not that simple. And if you are implying what's the harm in believing (please read up on Pascal) then I pose this question...if you do believe...how do you know you chose the right one (other than the fact of believing whatever is popular in your family/neighborhood)?

 

[Vetitas86]

Yeah, yeah. Technically speaking, Pascal's Wager is a bit more difficult than that. Drastic oversimplification, but I feel it works for the atheism vs. belief situation. Even if it ain't by the textbooks

I do believe. Though my personal beliefs are more in line with Deism than traditional Christianity per se. I just believe that everything comes from something. Now as to where God came from...different debate.

Do I know with certainty that its the "right" way? No. But it works for me. That's why my thing is respect for other peoples' beliefs. Religion as such is a bit of a guessing game.

 

[Shishkabob]

Until you can tell me how the universe started, you cannot say God, or a god, does or does not exist with any level of certainty. You literally have as much proof as the other person.


The very fact that something LITERALLY came from nothing, is in itself amazing, and goes against every single law that science states must be followed. Even if there is no higher being involved, literally one day there was NOTHING, no matter at all, and the next, there was. If there is no God, this very fact alone is amazing, and we'll probably never find out how matter came to exist.

you also invalidate all the gods currently ruling beside the Christian god on this earth.

To be fair, the Crhistian God, Jewish god and Muslin god are all in essence the same being. The biggest difference is how they view Jesus.

 

[Anjel]

I just don't see why people can't believe what they want.

Don't agree. That's ok. You can believe what you want, as long as you don't tell me I am wrong, and I won't tell you that you are wrong.

If someone wants to believe in unicorns that so be it.

 

[VCEMT]

I like to worship false idols. Sometimes myself. Anyone been to Japan? They have nice shrines that people pray to for fertility and have festivals.

So, back to the guy at Starbucks.

What if he said Allah? Creator? Odin? Zeus? Osiris? Marduk? Adad? Enlil? Ishtar? Hemsut? Nefertem? Sukuna-Biku Na? Spider-Man? Superman? Obama? Bush? Reagan? Che? Paul McCartney? Ronald McDonald? Elvis? Ozzy? Metallica? The Knights of St. John? The Knights of Hospitaller?

Get over yourself.

 

[akflightmedic]

To be fair, the Crhistian God, Jewish god and Muslin god are all in essence the same being. The biggest difference is how they view Jesus.

And to be fair, you missed out on literally dozens if not 100s of other gods currently in existence.

I am well aware of the three main you listed, however if you think their Jesus view is the biggest difference, you might want to head over to the Theology section of your local library and do some reading.

It is a difference but not "the biggest" as that implies almost everything else is the same or similar aside from that fact. While they do share a lot of common ground...it just is not that simple.

 

[Aidey]

Am I the only one who isn't seeing this as being about religion? We work a thankless job, and most of the time are looked over for our contributions. Especially if you work for a private company. The OP gets a little irked because someone expounds on how god saved their life and ignores all the people physically involved and suddenly there is a holy war going on.


Edit - One of the more religious calls I was on involved a gaggle of nuns. As we were packing the pt up they split into 2 groups. One was praying for the pt, and the other was praying for my partner and I. I thought it was pretty cool that they recognized the human element in the whole equation. If even they were asking god to guide my hands or whatever it was.

 

[Sasha]

I just don't see why people can't believe what they want.

Don't agree. That's ok. You can believe what you want, as long as you don't tell me I am wrong, and I won't tell you that you are wrong.

If someone wants to believe in unicorns that so be it.

Exactly. If you believe passionately in unicorns and it brings you a feeling of inner peace... Go for it.

I don't. I don't care what you believe in, as long as you're respectful.

The minute someone tries to convert me, or disrespect my views the nicey nice gloves come off, though.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Ok everyone needs a nap. "gets out pillows and blankets"

OP I see where you're coming from. I feel the same way when someone tells me all about the massive effort they put into having a kid through IVF. They talk about the waiting the expense the paperwork ect. Then they always say something along the lines of "but god wanted us to have this baby (babies)" and I always think. No obviously god didn't want you to have a baby or he wouldn't have made you infertile to begin with, but I always say it on the inside and on the outside I just say "yup it's a real miracle isn't it. Faith is faith. It doesn't matter if it's the faith you have in science or god or a lucky rabbits foot, if it gets you through the day and the rough times then have at it.

 

[akflightmedic]

Exactly. If you believe passionately in unicorns and it brings you a feeling of inner peace... Go for it.

I don't. I don't care what you believe in, as long as you're respectful.

The minute someone tries to convert me, or disrespect my views the nicey nice gloves come off, though.

Ahhh but what if my unicorn group grows and the passion for the horny one spreads? What if my group gets so large we start building phallic temples on every corner? What if our deity starts making requests that impact YOUR life...a non-horned one?

What if that group becomes so powerful and raises so much money and has so much influence that they are able to influence laws regulating your non horny life? Yet while doing all of this, they are respectful, they just want to regulate your life and activities-respectfully.

 

[Sasha]

I said I was all for people believing what they want.

I'm also for separation of church and state, be it Christian church or unicorn church.

Other than that, I have no problem with horny.

 

[Veneficus]

I said I was all for people believing what they want.

I'm also for separation of church and state, be it Christian church or unicorn church.

Other than that, I have no problem with horny.

Evidentally, my attempts at humor to relieve the tension here have failed.

All religion, any religion, as something that identifies members as part of a select group of morally righteous cannot possibly remain seperate from the laws of the state.

Because it is people who make law. people who fund candidates. People who vote for said candidates.

Just as it is false that there is a seperation of powers in branches of government. They are not seperate powers, simply limited in their ability to apply each.

You are right, it doesn't matter the religion at all. If my members are right, by default, everyone else is wrong.

I better not get started on extrinsic vs. intrinsic religion.

 

[Fish]

I'm still a baby student EMT-B, but I was thinking that alot of you probably get this quite alot.

I was just talking to a guy at Starbucks. He saw my books and said, "Oh, you're studying to be a EMT" and then proceed to tell me how he dropped "dead" on the basketball court at 24 hour fitness and the paramedics brought him back in the ambulance. He was in a coma for three days, but was sitting here talking to me. I know just enough to know I don't know jack, but from what I've been learning so for, from what he described to me, he seems incredibly lucky.

But, what I found irritating....after his long story about all the things that came together.....the luck of having a AED available, people at the gym that had just taken a CPR class to begin compressions and respirations immediately, the paramedics who arrived promptly and did everything they were trained to do, the doctors and hospital staff that went to school for years and years.....this guy at the end of his story says.....

"Thank God for his grace. It must not have been time for me to go"

Oh boy did I almost bite my tongue in half.

GOod thing you bit your tounge, if you would have done anything else then you would have been in for it with this patient. He believes in god, and believes even all the medical advances in the world cannot trump gods will.

 

[Fish]

Some people don't believe in god. God wasn't down there doing compressions to get him back.

Im not a fan when people say "thank god you got here in time". God didn't make me do anything. I chose what to do and what not to do. I wanted to be an EMT. God didn't make me become one.

That you know of

 

[mycrofft]

Emo has it pegged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2y_kI_-x1Q

 

[TatuICU]

I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself