Efmb

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82nd medic said:
Look up "tactical combat casualty care", it has a good list of why the current protocols are in place..
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I get to see the draft versions, it is not bad.
 
But it's not, all it does is get you a badge which is replaced by the CMB the second you treat a casualty in combat
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Even non-trauma docs are eligible for it simply by virtue of being in a hospital in a combat zone that is ever under some sort of direct or indirect fire. If you're willing to play around with anecdotal evidence, I know a psychiatrist who has the CMB for more or less sleeping through a mortar round landing on the other side of the compound. It's arguably the easier of the two to earn. As one of my 68W friends put it, it's the "thanks for showing up" badge for medical personnel. I don't know many people who look on it as prestigious or anything. Then again, most of the folks I know care less about the decorations and more about doing their job. Your mileage apparently varies....

See: http://www.army.mil/symbols/CombatBadges/medical.html Caveat #4 is the primarily pertinent one here:

Subsequent to 11 September 2001 – Personnel outlined in (1) and (3) above, assigned or attached to or under operational control of any ground Combat Arms units (not to include members assigned or attached to Aviation units) of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily performed medical duties while the unit is engaged in actual ground combat provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.
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82nd medic said:
Not really. The body fat %s of recruits out of basic are a good example of that, this is from the years of 2005 and 2008, and badges don't really have anything to do with recruitment standards.
Also considering that 75% of Americans are not eligeable for military service I thin the "lower standards" thing is a bit over dramatized
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I would tend to disagree with you on that. You should have seen some of the people I was at Basic and AIT with. They were some major Dbags all around. And where are you getting the 75% of Americans are not eligible for military service? I dont think the "lower standards" is over dramatized.
 
usafmedic45 said:
Even non-trauma docs are eligible for it simply by virtue of being in a hospital in a combat zone that is ever under some sort of direct or indirect fire. If you're willing to play around with anecdotal evidence, I know a psychiatrist who has the CMB for more or less sleeping through a mortar round landing on the other side of the compound. It's arguably the easier of the two to earn. As one of my 68W friends put it, it's the "thanks for showing up" badge for medical personnel. I don't know many people who look on it as prestigious or anything. Then again, most of the folks I know care less about the decorations and more about doing their job. Your mileage apparently varies....

See: http://www.army.mil/symbols/CombatBadges/medical.html Caveat #4 is the primarily pertinent one here:
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I never said anything along the lines of decorations meaning more than doing your job... I believe I even stated that many personel purposely fail out of EFMB so they can actually get back to doing their job. Also my whole issue with the EFMB is that it has nothjng to do with actually knowing your job. You on the other hand have said that you believe that attending thr EFMB means being up to par though, perhaps you'd like to take a second look at your statement since your entire opinion of what the standards for "army field medicine" are is based off of a course that only badge chasers take seriously? Yes just like anything it can be pencil wipped, I don't know any medic that actually earned it that doesn't take some pride in it. If you think it doesn't mean anything, go find someone who survived a combat injury and ask him what he thinks of his medic's CMB. also you failed to read the whole article or you dont know how deployments work. a hospital medic technically wouldnt be eligeable for one since deploying hospitals (CSHs for example) do not fall under the command of a combat arms unit of brigade or smaller size. they could get one pencil whipped but by regs they are ineligeable to earn the CMB.

Tommerag said:
I would tend to disagree with you on that. You should have seen some of the people I was at Basic and AIT with. They were some major Dbags all around. And where are you getting the 75% of Americans are not eligible for military service? I dont think the "lower standards" is over dramatized.
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You've seriously never seen this? Wow...
http://www.missionreadiness.org/PAEE0609.pdf
 
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You do realize that, it says 17-24 right? There for that is not 75% of Americans. You should check your facts before throwing out numbers.

If you think it doesn't mean anything, go find someone who survived a combat injury and ask him what he thinks of his medic's CMB.
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Whose to say it was the medic that saved his life? Could have been another guy with CLS training.
 
Tommerag said:
You do realize that, it says 17-24 right? There for that is not 75% of Americans. You should check your facts before throwing out numbers.



Whose to say it was the medic that saved his life? Could have been another guy with CLS training.
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Whose to say it's not the medic? That's just throwing out a "what if" for a far reach to disagree. CLS is a decent course since it switched to TC3 standards but what though do you think is going to kick in for most infantrymen? Something they train once a month in or what they're taught since day 1 of OSUT? (that's "shoot your weapon"). Medics exist for a reason, I don't know any infantryman who has a problem letting his medic treat while he shoots back.

And sorry my bad: 75% of the military's main demographic age range for new recruits. I'm sure if you factor in those outside of the age range you'd come to 75% total... Since people seem to like to nit pick here

Also af: I dint know why your bragging about a friend getting a CMB pencil whipped: sleeping isn't performing medical duties.
 
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82nd medic said:
Ok so then I take it you don't know that as far as line/field medics go most purposely fail out so they get to go home early? Especially in times of war when the CMB is what matters, not the EFMB? Or that the only medics that really take it seriously at all are hospital medics who've been spending the last X amount of years working more as a janitor/litter carrier than doing actual medical skills?
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Earned mine in 92, it had about a 15% pass rate, in fact, I was the only medic in my battalion to earn it. As for the CMB, that can be earned by sitting in a clinic in Kuwait or breaching walls in the Hindu Kush, it isn't a "test", you get it for showing up, weather involved in combat or not. Coming from a line unit, I kind of felt that was wrong, but that was just my opinion at the time.
 
Clearly times have changed, earning your EFMB was the way to promote, get selected for schools, etc... In fact, it was the non-combat types who pissed and moaned, failed PT, failed land nav, failed 12 mile road march and had no clue. It was the same at air assault school, the REMFs cried and whined about everything, the field guys just soldiered on.
 
boingo said:
Earned mine in 92, it had about a 15% pass rate, in fact, I was the only medic in my battalion to earn it. As for the CMB, that can be earned by sitting in a clinic in Kuwait or breaching walls in the Hindu Kush, it isn't a "test", you get it for showing up, weather involved in combat or not. Coming from a line unit, I kind of felt that was wrong, but that was just my opinion at the time.
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If you're going by regs you have to be in combat or atleast under fire to get it. True you get it whether the patient lives or dies, but I don't know any medic that wants one of their platoon members to buy it. The point being that the CMB is atleast a representation of doing your job.

boingo said:
Clearly times have changed, earning your EFMB was the way to promote, get selected for schools, etc... In fact, it was the non-combat types who pissed and moaned, failed PT, failed land nav, failed 12 mile road march and had no clue. It was the same at air assault school, the REMFs cried and whined about everything, the field guys just soldiered on.
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War changes things, so does a slow rate of badge courses updating to the current medical care regs. In theory it can be a good course, but in practice it's not (or atleast wasn't in 2008). If it actually tested medical and combat skills it would be one thing, but testing an archaic treatment standard is another.
 
On my way to EFMB at the end of this month. I will let you know if they are using the TC3 guildlines when I get back.
 
Also af: I dint know why your bragging about a friend getting a CMB pencil whipped: sleeping isn't performing medical duties.
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I wasn't bragging, just making the point that it's a more or less pointless exercise to argue that this badge means more than that one or that it's more coveted.
 
usafmedic45 said:
I wasn't bragging, just making the point that it's a more or less pointless exercise to argue that this badge means more than that one or that it's more coveted.
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I'm not sure your logic works. You're saying he had one pencil whipped because he didn't want it?
Or are you saying it means less because some troops who are a little shy of honorable recieve them when they clearly shouldn't? I've seen someone get a bronze star for doing a power point presentation so there's very few awards you can't say that of and see the above.
Or are you saying it means less because it's a badge that is earned by actually treating a patient under fire? Didn't you say earlier that doing your job meant more than badge chasing? Your logic fails there since the EFMB is just a badge and the CMB (atleast when it's actually earned) is from doing your job.

Your logic fails...
 
Your logic fails...
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No, apparently your reading comprehension does.

He technically earned it because he was in a combat zone as a medical provider, was under the rank of colonel and was under fire. Welcome to the criteria for the CMB. No "pencil whipping" necessary. Beyond that, I have nothing further to say to you because you have your opinions and nothing anyone else has to say- regardless of their background or experience- is apparently sufficient to warrant your reconsideration. Therefore, I have nothing more to say to you.
 
That's enough of this one. If you want to debate which badge is better, take it elsewhere.

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