“Silent Approach Requested…”

[WolfmanHarris]

The only time silent response is specifically requested is by PD if backing up a raid and this is all coordinated via landline through the EMS Special Response Unit. Aside from this, silent approach is never requested as the dispatch protocols Code the response, not the caller.

Regarding use of sirens, when dispatched Code 4 (Urgent) L&S use is entirely descretionary. Unless traffic is heavy or there are lots of intersections to clear the siren is only used intermittently as a warning when approaching an intersection, and then only if there is traffic. (All intersections get a full stop without exception, regardless of time and traffic). So usually by the time I get close to the call, there's no need for the siren at all. I will usually leave the lights on though to help ensure that we are seen by any pedestrians or people leaving their driveways.

 

[SES4]

at 3am there may not be any traffic to use a siren on anyway.

I tend to agree here. At 0300 there may be no need to use sirens as traffic is minimal or none. I always use lights on main roads though. Additionally, if the Police Department requests No L&S then we abide but otherwise, I use them during the day on main roads then kill sirens when I get into residential areas, tertiary roads, etc.

 

[RMSP05]

The only time ive been requested to have a silent aproach, was to an elementary school and we thats what we did. I also only use the siren when im coming up to an intersection, or there is traffic, other than that, its not very productive when your going 60 mph down the road. people are not going to hear it, unless ur really close to them

 

[Akulahawk]

can you provide any evidence of emergency vehicle induced seizure?

There should be quite a bit of evidence of triggering seizures with strobes... I know it's done in a clinical setting to try to trigger a seizure (with eeg in place) and locate the focus in the brain. It's not that difficult of leap of logic that strobes on ambulances can trigger seizures in people in the same manner.

I haven't heard of any specific scientific studies wrt EV strobe induced seizure...

 

[Akulahawk]

For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...

 

[ki4mus]

We almost always respond lights and sirens, the only real exception is a special needs camp that we have in the county, we turn everything off when we get close to that camp, a lot of the kids don't react well around the lights and noise.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Okay... a lot of "depends" answers, so I narrow it down...

The type of dispatches to which my county gets a lot of "Silent Approach"requests are average citizens calling form their homes (not PD and not special facilities). They are calling 911 for Difficulty Breathing, Chest Pain, and general "Sick" calls... There is no set time of day they request this, although the age of the ones that do request this to dispatch tend to be more on the elderly side. By silent approach, they mean that they would like you to cut the siren before it would become audible to the RP.

Yes, as Hawk said, in CA (for instance) code three needs only one steady burning red light, but obviously the siren and extra lights are there as extra warning (although the use and need of them can be debated later and elsewhere). For instance, the compnay I worked for had a policy that Code 3 meant all lights and sirens (no exception). However, in the wee hours when responding through residental areas or to SNFs, we did cut the siren.

However, in my area the request for "silent approach" is very frequent and occurs at all times of the day in all areas. Some crews honor the request (still going code with the lights though) and others simply feel that to do so would mean increasing response time on somehting that could be serious (resp or cardiac issues). It seems that in more urban areas crews are more likely to be L&S for all code calls, while more rule areas will only go Lights with no Siren (unless they approach an intersection or traffic - a policy I have reservations on as the siren is often activated too late to be any good and the sudden sound is more likely to startle people, cause accidents, and confuse people...)

I guess the question should be, how do you feel about and respond to the request for no siren from the RP...

 

[daedalus]

There should be quite a bit of evidence of triggering seizures with strobes... I know it's done in a clinical setting to try to trigger a seizure (with eeg in place) and locate the focus in the brain. It's not that difficult of leap of logic that strobes on ambulances can trigger seizures in people in the same manner.

I haven't heard of any specific scientific studies wrt EV strobe induced seizure...

You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.

I frankly find it a little ridiculous.

 

[Sasha]

You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.

I frankly find it a little ridiculous.

So you are saying that strobe lights can cause seizures but ambulances that use strobe lights can't??

I frankly find that a little ridiculous.

 

[Jon]

I've run calls at night where I never bothered to turn on my lights, let alone siren. If it isn't going to save me any time, and it is going to attract attention (which can easily be negative attention)... why would I want that?

Like others have said - if there is no one on the road to get out of my way - I usually don't have the siren on (unless I'm "exercising a privilege" in which case it is usually on). And in developments, at night, to avoid gathering a crowd, I'll often kill the lights onscene.

BUT - the callers request for a silent approach doesn't really make me do anything different... I behave the same without the request - and there are sometimes when it isn't really possible.

My service also has a policy that EDP's, DOA's, and Fire Calls are run non-emergent, except for mitigating circumstances (like known patients at the fireground, serious suicide attempt, etc). There isn't anything the ambulamce is really going to do, at least at first. An allied agency (PD/FD) will have primary responsibility, so why not let them get there first?

 

[Sapphyre]

Only time I've honored a silent approach is when it was a PD request.

 

[ResTech]

Why would you not honor the request? You are being called to provide a service to a customer who is paying for it. If they request no lights or siren in the area than that is their choice and I think it should be honored. Obviously, if your along a roadway or some other hazard is present you leave your secondary lights activated.

Seeing how L&S use doesn't save any clinically significant time ne way what does it really matter... unless of course traffic is a safety hazard or you have to go against the flow of traffic.

 

[JPINFV]

If you're going to a residential track, why would you have your siren on after you enter the track anyways? If a driver is paying even half attention, they're going to see you with your lights on. It's not like your trying to cross red lights inside the block anyways. Even still, unless there's a ton of residential traffic, I really see no reason to even have the lights on at that point, let alone the siren.

 

[wvditchdoc]

For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...

While I am not disagreeing about the Cali requirement, the "rest of the stuff" is safety related. It is governed by the DOT and probably OSHA (but I can't find the specific reference right this second). States can enforce stricter regulations but cannot drop below the minimum requirement. Sounds like the requirement and definition may be outdated.

Marc

 

[wvditchdoc]

Lights and Sirens

I think the actual type of call you are responding to should be taken into consideration.

Side Note: Personal pet peeve of mine is "every call gets L&S". That is craziness. Use that space between your ears to weigh the risks associated and then decide.

Where indicated and depending on Crew/Vehicle safety, the Silent Approach should be honored. If there is any doubt as to your safety, all available measures should be implemented to ensure it; regardless of the customer request.

Personally, I do my best to honor the request when made.

 

[PapaBear434]

You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.

I frankly find it a little ridiculous.

Besides being different colors, what separates our strobes from the ones being used in a clinical environment?

Besides, it's not when we arrive. We have our lights on right up until we get to the house. That's when we kill them, so we don't bring the patient out on the stretcher into a billion flashing lights (with the truck, fire apparatus, possible police, EMS interceptor...)

I guess I don't see your reasoning for NOT turning them off. Are you denying that strobes can induce seizures, or that our lights could in no way even conceivably induce one?

 

[281mustang]

You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.

Why is that? What effectively seperates a light bar from a strobe light?

 

[ki4mus]

Okay... a lot of "depends" answers, so I narrow it down...

The type of dispatches to which my county gets a lot of "Silent Approach"requests are average citizens calling form their homes (not PD and not special facilities). They are calling 911 for Difficulty Breathing, Chest Pain, and general "Sick" calls... There is no set time of day they request this, although the age of the ones that do request this to dispatch tend to be more on the elderly side. By silent approach, they mean that they would like you to cut the siren before it would become audible to the RP.



I guess the question should be, how do you feel about and respond to the request for no siren from the RP...

If it bad enough for them to call 911 then in these questions they get a hot run....I usally don't use the siren unless I'm in traffic, or need it (otherwise what's the point) but the lights stay.... otherwise they need a taxi.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...

Do emergency rigs in CA still need to have the steady burning red lamp along with all the other lights?

Reminds me of the story about the Queens Artillery in England. They were doing a demonstration for the queen’s birthday. They rolled up with their guns towed behind trucks, ammunition supply rigs, the whole deal. Then they proceeded to demonstrate to the queen how her artillery worked. The queen noticed that the entire 6 man crew at each gun was busy except for one man. He would just stand there while everyone else was working their tail end off. Then right before the weapon was fired, he would snap to attention. After the demonstration was over the queen asked the officer in charge of the company what the 6th man was for. He didn't know. It turned out that nobody knew. Finally someone managed to find out his job. He was there to hold the horses when the artillery fired.

 

[ki4mus]

Why is that? What effectively seperates a light bar from a strobe light?

I could see the newer LED strobes causing a seizure if the person was directly if front of the LED head. but the older strobes and regular lights attached to the old machanical flashers just aren't strong enough to do it...